Nicole Begley (00:00)
Hey, welcome back to the podcast. In today's episode, I am chatting with Heather about what happens when things go terribly wrong and how we can manage our mind through it. So things like getting denied a visa for going to teach a workshop two weeks before the workshop or maybe getting a hundred thousand dollar plus tax bill. Well, let's talk about it. Stay tuned.

Nicole Begley (00:24)
I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six-figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2,000 $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six-figure businesses.

that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full-time passion or a part-time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads, welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast.

Nicole Begley (01:23)
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Bagley, and back in the studio today. I'm saying this like we have an actual physical studio. We're both in our offices connected by the Internet. Back on the connected office Internet today is Heather Lattinen.

Heather (01:39)
Thank you so much for having me, Nicole. We were together last week and it was amazing. And if we would have had time, we certainly would have recorded a podcast with the two of us in the same room. It didn't work out. That's okay.

Nicole Begley (01:52)
Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. I'm just noticing that our rooms, white balance, crazy, look the exact same color and they are not.

Heather (02:02)
This white balance thing is going to drive us insane as photographers. Probably nobody else notices, but I see it as well.

Nicole Begley (02:10)
That's really funny. All right. But we're not here to talk about white balance today. we are here to talk. We started talking. Well, let's back up and give everybody an update. We had our first of many future. Elevate live events. What is elevate live? Cause we had, okay, back up. We had elevate live before, which was your live retreats, which you were calling, which were like an all day zoom focused, like online.

live event. But this is like a live live event, like an actual live event. Like people got in planes, came in as their 3D selves into the same room. Today.

Heather (02:40)
Yes.

In real person, yes. Yes, yes,

I know this was the first time we've done this and I've got to be honest, you had to sort of convince me to do this for a while. You have been working on me and we can talk about my resistance later, but it was so off the charts. Amazing that I was in the car with you.

borderline comatose and I said, when are we doing it again? I loved it so much. This is amazing to be in person and I guess we knew this but it's just such a different level of connection and sharing that is really critical, I think to our growth. So we're going to have another one and it's going to be required. I'm kidding.

Nicole Begley (03:41)
Yeah. No, for sure. But the only way to get in that room is to be a member of Elevate. Yeah. Yeah. So come join us. Hair of the Dog Academy dot com slash Elevate. Come and join us. And yes, it was it was an incredible, incredible two days and like just hearing the transformations that happened.

Heather (03:46)
Yes. Yeah. Right.

Nicole Begley (04:01)
for being there because you're out of your element, right? When you're like trying to focus on something at home, like you still need to change the laundry. Somebody still has questions. The dog still needs to go out. Like you're getting pulled your attention in 37 different ways when you're home, where when you go to an in-person thing, everyone is focused on the same goal. And that's just a whole new level of just being able to take action, be able to get clarity, being able to like just move the ball forward in your business.

that you just can't get virtually.

Heather (04:32)
Right. And quickly, quickly, because you'll say things in person that you maybe normally would not say online. Not even because it's online. mean, just you just don't think to say it. But you're having a natural conversation in person and something comes up that leads you to this next epiphany a lot of times. And then you hear someone else say something and then you put that together. You draw a parallel to your business, which leads to another breakthrough.

Nicole Begley (04:34)
No, no.

Heather (05:01)
And it just seems like it's an incredible concentration of breakthroughs and epiphanies kind of one after the next.

Nicole Begley (05:08)
And not even just from us because I think the biggest benefit is all these people kind of knew each other online, but not really like them hanging out with each other. And we purposely set up a few different exercises to make sure that all the incredible knowledge in the room got shared too, not just for me and you, but like from the other elevators that are doing great things. And I think people were really surprised and delighted to be able to connect with each other.

And some of their biggest breakthroughs came from each other.

Heather (05:41)
Yeah, and you had made this pretty clear to me early on because of the rooms that you have been in that the reality is it was never about us, you and I. It was about them collectively coming together. And yes, we absolutely led some amazing discussions. We were the facilitators to help them get to their next level with their peers and sitting back and watching that and participating in it was really

Nicole Begley (05:51)
Mm-hmm.

Heather (06:11)
deeply fulfilling to me deeply like to see the impact they're having on one another and of course what we lead was I mean have you ever just walked away from something where you were like I am full I'm just my heart is just full and I just could not have been happier with the way it went

Nicole Begley (06:24)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. my gosh. So good. Okay. All right. Enough talking about that. We just had to share though, like seriously you guys next March, we're to do it again. Make sure you're in elevate because that's the only way to get in there. ⁓ and I should add to that. was a paid event, but we made it a very low cost. Like it, it, it didn't cover costs, but it was pretty close. Like it was just to cover the cost of the event because like we,

believe strongly that we wanted every single elevator to be there as they could, but we didn't want to just raise the price of elevate, ⁓ you know, because if we just included it for everybody, we'd have to raise the price of elevate even more. So we wanted to make it ⁓ affordable, but really only people that were able to come had to pay for it. ⁓ And I mean, again, it is like,

Heather (07:23)
I

just want to reiterate what you just said because you're always so kind and just professional about the way you speak. And I'm going to say it real, which is we charge people to just cover the costs. Listen to what Nicole just said. It did not cover the cost. So just to be clear, Nicole and I paid you to put on that event. Not only did we not make any money, we paid for that event.

And the reason I want to drive that home is because I don't want anyone ever to question our dedication to these photographers in this program ever. It just won't receive it.

Nicole Begley (08:04)
Yeah, no. And like that was our goal. was just like, neither one of us went into us like, I know how we can make some money. We would just, we're so driven about like, I know this is going to be such an incredible experience. How can we make this happen? And, and this is what it looked like. anyway, um, come join us next year. You won't regret it. It's incredible. Um, okay. But today during all these conversations,

Heather (08:11)
Right, right.

Right, amazing.

Nicole Begley (08:34)
One of the things that kind of came up was anxious thoughts and how we work with those and kind of what those are. Like I, I and we got in this conversation where I don't really consider myself an anxious thought type person. And then I realized as we were talking, I realized why. And that is because my brain immediately goes to like down the worst case scenarios.

And then I get there and it's like, okay, I can handle that. I can manage that. And the second piece of that is this came up during Elevate Live where you're like, Nicole, what's your belief? Like basically we were like saying what we believe about ourselves, like what we know is true, what our thoughts and beliefs are that are our North Star. And for me is like, I can do anything. I can figure anything out. And so...

That deep like North Star belief coupled with me getting worried about something, following that thought down the worst case scenario rabbit hole hits that belief of, mean, I don't want to deal with that, but I will ⁓ short circus that anxious thought.

And then we were kind of talking about like that might not be the best strategy for someone else because if somebody else could go down that rabbit hole and get stuck in that worst case scenario, which is anxiety essentially, which are anxious thoughts when you get stuck in that spiral.

Heather (09:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, this was so interesting because what it came down to if I were to high level it is that your self concept is built on a deep level of trust for yourself. You just know that you're going to figure it out. There is a solution and that you will figure it out. So you and I had been chatting in the car about this idea of anxious thoughts. And I used to never, ever consider myself an anxious person, but as I have

Nicole Begley (10:13)
Mm-hmm.

Heather (10:30)
Hmm aged a little bit. I have started to have more anxious thoughts and I try not to identify I try not to say I have anxiety or I am anxious I try to say occasionally I have some anxious thoughts that are not useful and I had asked you in the car Hey, give me an example Talk to me about your anxious thoughts and in or could be perceived that way and how you deal with it and the interesting thing was You went to these

crazy extreme scenarios. It was like, I was talking about things like, I have ⁓ bathroom anxiety about like, where's the next bathroom? Like, what if I have to go to the bathroom and I can't find one? And your, these thoughts that you had were like next level. Do we have an example that is befitting?

Nicole Begley (11:19)
Sure, mean, I think one of them was which goes back to my deep level of trust and where that was forged in the fire was back in 2019 when we were teaching Bark Zealand and we were going to lead this workshop in New Zealand and Kaylee was going a couple weeks early to do her little travel around tour stuff early.

And she flew from Boston to LA and denied boarding on her flight from LA to Auckland. And American was just like, basically New Zealand called said, you can't come. There's a visa issue. Like, excuse me, what? So, ⁓ I get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom as I do at our age. And I happened to look at my phone to see what time it is. And I saw a text from Kaylee and then like Reddit, which was a mistake to read anything at that time of night, especially when it was like,

Heather (11:57)
Surprise! What?

Nicole Begley (12:15)
Hey, because this was like midnight in LA, which is like 3 a.m. here, right? So I was then needlessly up for the day. And she's like, I can't get on the plane. They're denying us boarding, yada, yada, yada, this and that. I'm like, OK, well, go get some sleep. Like there's nothing you can do right now. It's midnight in LA. Unlike the consulate on in D.C. will open first. I'll call them at nine and see.

Like what to do. And basically I got the advice from the consulate in the New Zealand consulate in DC was like, just going on a tourist visa. Like there's no problem here. I'm like, well, yeah, but no, she's like, he's like, she must've said she was teaching a workshop. like, no, definitely did not. ⁓ anyway, so we scrambled and within.

We got it done in four days. We managed to get work visas for one of the most difficult countries on the planet to get a work visa for. And so anyway, so as it's all happening, I'm spiraling to, ⁓ we have, I think 12 people each week, 24 people flying from all over the world to come to New Zealand. We have, you know, like they've paid a lot of money to be here. We have.

close to $100,000 in costs that we put into these events. Like these events to run are not inexpensive. You know, houses, chefs, cars, like all the things. ⁓ And yeah, but like my worst case was, all right, Charlotte and Craig teach this workshop and like Kaylee and I zoom in when we can.

Heather (14:06)
Wow. I actually remember this episode because we were talking and ⁓ the amount of stress and anxiety I felt on your behalf.

Nicole Begley (14:18)
It was hardcore. was quite possibly one of the most stressed I've ever been in my life, but I figured it out.

Heather (14:23)
I was like,

what are you going to do? And you're like, I'm going to call a consulate. And I'm like, what the heck is that? I don't even know. What do you mean you call a consulate? don't understand what you're, speak English, please.

Nicole Begley (14:35)
Yeah.

Heather (14:37)
crazy. And then

you okay, so in your brain, in addition to the steps you were taking to solve the problem, your brain was saying, okay, if we cannot get into the country, here is what I can do, we will do the solution. And it's not the end of the world. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world.

Nicole Begley (14:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Here's the solution. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. mean, because then it took the pressure off and then it freed my brain up to problem solve. Because if I was just focused on sky is falling the sky, it's falling there. There is no, there is no cognitive space left for solutions.

Heather (15:06)
what?

Yes.

Okay, that is like mic drop truth. It's like, if you're looking up at the sky and you're saying the sky is falling and you're fixated on it, you can't possibly look elsewhere for a solution.

Okay. All right. And you figured that out? It seems like quickly. Yes.

Nicole Begley (15:37)
On accident,

mean, it was not like there was no purposely like, ⁓ I better figure this out and put my focus somewhere else. This was all retroactively when we were talking, when it was like, I see a pattern in this pattern works for me. But like I said, it might not work for anybody else or like everybody else. It would certainly work for some other people. But like if I go to those worst case scenarios and I can't get out of them, I can't I can't problem solve the worst case scenario and be like,

Heather (15:49)
Mmm. Yes.

Nicole Begley (16:07)
I can live with this. Like I will not die. No one will die. This will be okay. We can manage. This is what we do. Then then I can let it go.

Heather (16:17)
That's it. That's it. So one thing I taught very early on when I was mentoring photographers who would come to me and say they were considering leaving a corporate job. They would be really nervous. Obviously there's a risk involved with being an entrepreneur. And I said, well, what do you think the worst case scenario is like in your mind? You know, and it would be something around failure. This doesn't work. Okay. What would happen then? I'd have to go back to a corporate job. Okay. Well, what's the worst case scenario there? Well,

Maybe I can't go back to my corporate job. Like I couldn't go back to engineering because I don't know how to do it anymore. So the worst case scenario is go back to a job. Okay. Maybe even a low paying job. Okay. The reason it's important to define the worst case scenario, even before you get to the solution, by the way, even before that, the reason it's important to define it is so that you can emotionally digest it, understand it, and then work to

Nicole Begley (17:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Heather (17:15)
either solve it or you really can just let it go. You really can say, okay, that is the worst case scenario. Stocking shelves at a target because I can't go back to engineering is the worst case scenario. Okay, listen, if I had to do it, you would do it or you'd figure something else out, which means because I emotionally processed it, I could then let it go because it's like, whatever happens, I will figure it out.

Nicole Begley (17:44)
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Done.

Heather (17:47)
Poof, let it go.

Yeah. So I think, you you and I were talking in the car, like it makes us ⁓ not nervous, but a little hesitant to say this because some people are really good at using things like this against themselves. So they'll be like, well, if I go to the worst case scenario, I start flipping out and I can't manage it. know, and they somehow, brains are really clever.

Nicole Begley (18:02)
Mm-hmm.

Heather (18:11)
and your brain will figure out a way to sort of manipulate this against you, which is quite strange, but true. So I do want to kind of argue that this would work for all people, very high number of people this would work for.

Nicole Begley (18:25)
Yeah.

Yeah. You just have to be careful how I guess in its practice, right? Like, because you have a situation currently that if this had happened to you five years ago, it would have been very bad for Heather.

Heather (18:32)
Mm-hmm, yes.

If the

situation we're about to talk about, if it happened to me five years ago, I would have retreated into the woods in a little cave that I carved out and I would call myself a hobbit and I would live out the remainder of my days off of the land.

And that would be it. It would be over. You'd never see me again. I would have buried myself. Yeah, this this situation to me, it's like you think you have this fear of your worst case scenario. And that truly is a very big dark cloud on the horizon. And it's massive and it's scary because it's big and it's far. And you can't clearly even see what it is. Right. Is that like?

Nicole Begley (19:26)
Mm-hmm.

Heather (19:27)
It's just like too vague, right? So then something starts to come into focus. And by the way, when something comes into focus, like the big dark cloud on the horizon comes into focus and gets clear, you're like, that's, that's just a flock of geese. You know, it's like not a big deal. It's not this big dark cloud. So shall we dive into this one?

Nicole Begley (19:48)
Yeah, I love it. Just real quick, the one thing that I love that I think it's Buffalo ⁓ will actually go into the storm. Yeah, make it faster. Be a buffalo.

Heather (19:54)
I told you this story. I told you this. Yes. Yeah. So funny. Yeah, I had

read this years ago where in the Midwest, in the plains where it's very flat, if there's a storm coming, buffalo will run into it to get through it faster on the other side. Cows will run from it, thereby prolonging their exposure. Cows are stupid. Okay. I don't know what to tell you. I love them.

Nicole Begley (20:19)
but they're so cute. They're not stupid.

They just maybe are not so good with the weather. ⁓

Heather (20:24)
Yes, that's exactly what it is. Buffalo run through cows run from okay.

So the goal is like previous Heather was for sure a cow for sure.

Nicole Begley (20:34)
you have

now metamorphosized into a buffalo. ⁓ We're getting some interesting biology lessons here today, ⁓

Heather (20:39)
Correct. Correct. I have seen...

seen the ways of the buffalo and I have

decided that that way is better because why not get through it faster? Like you didn't run and hide from the visa situation. You couldn't.

Nicole Begley (20:58)
No, I was immediately in 901 on that phone with a New Zealand consulate in DC.

Heather (21:03)
immediate get me on the horn with the consulate and we're going to figure this out. So, OK, you were sort of forced into that. But the truth is you do this, I think, innately is like you'll go right to the storm. were you as long as I've known you've always been the buffalo. You're just like, I'm going to deal with it. It's it's me that's slow to sort has been historically to figure out like, no, I don't want to be the cow. I don't want to run from this. I want to go straight through it quickly, as quickly as possible.

Nicole Begley (21:07)
Ha ha ha ha.

Yeah, right,

right. So yeah, so what's happening?

Heather (21:35)
I got a notice in August, this is nine months ago at this point from the PA Department of Revenue that I was being audited for sales tax. So sales and use tax.

Nicole Begley (21:44)
Welcome to the club. happened

to me. Yeah. A couple of years ago. our, auditors were very different though. Yeah, he was, he was, he was fine. He was good to work with. He was helpful. Yeah.

Heather (21:48)
This is

Yeah, your auditor seemed like a decent human. Yeah, mine is not.

Mine is not. So when this first happened, I was like, oh, that's annoying. But okay, a couple things. Let me back up. This is one of my worst case scenarios. This is one of my biggest fears about being in business is getting audited. That was a dark cloud on the horizon for me. I had no definition around that.

Nicole Begley (22:12)
That's right.

Heather (22:20)
Auditing to me was always about revenue. So I've always, am the biggest rule follower you will ever meet. I'm as clean as a whistle. I want to sleep at night. will gladden. I will pay my taxes. You know, I will take care of everything I need to take care of. So, but it's still one of my worst case scenarios because I didn't understand it. And if we're looking at this at a high level, the fact that I'm going through this and understanding it is so good for me because now I won't be afraid of it.

Nicole Begley (22:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Well, I mean, all of these things, everything that we face in our life is really nothing more than opportunity for growth, right? Yeah.

Heather (22:55)
So good, so

good. So, okay. But when it first happened, you know, we're in the age of the new Heather, okay, where

Nicole Begley (23:03)
Well,

yes, I also want to mention real quick too, for people out there that are running photography businesses, what you are selling is clearly defined by your department of revenue. Even like digital files and things like that are now clearly defined in every state. And if you are not sure what is taxable in your state, go to the department of revenue, find out, contact them. If you don't know, they are usually pretty helpful unless you get this one auditor that Heather has.

⁓ But that is clearly defined. However, in our little world wild west, go with the wild west theme of online education, it is not clearly defined. Laws take a while to catch up with other things. it is constantly kind of looking at where does this fall in to whatever is due and it is anything but clear. So just setting the stage there for that.

Heather (24:00)
Yeah, so when it first, when I first got the notification, it was like, okay, ⁓ don't like this kind of my worst case scenario. And also, my accountant will handle this. It's not a big deal because I know I follow the law and they'll look around, they'll find nothing. We'll wrap this up. No problem. Probably pretty quickly, you know, okay, whatever.

So he requests information. My accountant, who's wonderful, his name is Matt, you know, gets into my QuickBooks. We get into Kajabi, get him everything he asks for. But then he starts asking for the same things repeatedly. And it's very clear that there's confusion. And no matter how many times we explained to him that I am a coach, I coach people. It's a digital service.

which is non-taxable by the way, just like let's be clear. And no matter how many times we told him that or explained what the offers were, he just wasn't getting it. I mean, he asked us about Elevate 55 times. We showed him documentation, everything under the sun. He just really could not.

Nicole Begley (25:12)
Even your

private clients, which are like just you get on Zoom with them. is zero portal.

Heather (25:17)
Zero.

Zero. So a lot of confusion around that. Okay. Maybe it is the Wild West and people don't understand that, it's, you know, okay. Maybe, maybe. But I don't, you know, I said to Matt at once, is, do you think he's actually obtuse or is he just pretending to be? Like to get more information? I don't know. We don't, we don't have the answer to that. Okay. But repeatedly coming back with

pretty insane requests for documentation, which we provided every single time ahead of his deadlines. he just kept coming back with crazier and weirder things. But basically we started to give him the same thing repeatedly. And at the end of the year, so that would be four months in, he says, yeah, we're to have to extend the audit because I'm not clear on whatever he's not clear on. ⁓

Okay, so now he's extending it into the new year, which every step of the way I Would say I maintained a pretty good attitude, but I'm living out my worst-case fear Yes, and I'm managing it which is good for me good if you want to build a million dollar business Which I do this is good. This is good. I keep telling myself. It's annoying, but it's good at the end of the day He you know my accountant said Heather. He's gonna dig till he finds something you're going to owe something but

Nicole Begley (26:45)
Mm-hmm.

Heather (26:45)
you know, we'll cross that bridge. Okay, so fine, whatever. So on and on and on it goes. His latest request was more insane than the last 50 and we provided it, but before he even opened it, he's now keep in mind, he has been going on with this audit for nine months without like any, any sign of closure, right? Any sign of resolving this. And he says, two days ago, actually, he said it is

Nicole Begley (27:07)
Alright.

Heather (27:14)
blah, blah. He uses some words that don't make any sense, which they do. Right. Right. my gosh. My account is amazing. Amazing. I love him. Super professional, super clear, knows what he's doing. The auditor says, I'm just going to, you know what? I don't really understand what's going on here. So I'm just going to go ahead and assess 6 % PA sales tax on everything the taxpayer has earned in the past three years. Everything. Everything. Without regard to service location, nothing.

Nicole Begley (27:17)
The auditor, not our accountant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather (27:43)
So that number was just over a million dollars. He was going to assess 6 % tax plus penalties and interest on. Yeah. It came to, the bottom line is the tax came to 73,000 plus, you know, if you add on interest and payments anywhere between a hundred and $130,000 I would owe. Okay.

Nicole Begley (27:53)
And use tax. So it's like what $72,000 or something.

This is where I got the SOS Boxer.

Heather (28:12)
SOS, I put little sirens. I was like, help talk me down from this. I know, I know that it's not true. Okay, number one.

Nicole Begley (28:16)
Hahaha!

This was just

a couple of days ago, guys, by the way. The fact that Heather can already talk about this is shocking compared to where you would have been. Yeah.

Heather (28:27)
this is

Remarkable. Remarkable. I'd

have been a hobbit. I told you where I would be. So yeah, he, okay, he sends this. I freak out. I take a couple of deep breaths. I put this through the model GPT and I'm like, okay, this is his first, he's just swinging wide, know, give it all to us. ⁓ in that email, he's like, I'm gonna assess the taxpayer this and then we can go ahead and close the audit.

Nicole Begley (28:55)
Yeah, then I think my first words here and like, he might think he's closing the audit. You're just getting started. Yeah.

Heather (29:01)
Nope. It's true. It's true. It's true.

So, okay. It's very clear. We have these reports. can, we can prove what I do with the digital services is not taxable, but this is where it's gray and he's just trying to argue and not provide the documentation and

Nicole Begley (29:20)
And yeah, and

Matt was asking him like, tell me exactly what documentation that says that this is all taxable. Like what are you finding that you're saying this is taxable? Yeah.

Heather (29:23)
where this is, yeah.

And he's not providing that because it

actually does not exist. ⁓ So this, this does, this could make one a little bit nervous, right? Because it's not super clear. And, ⁓ so I was like, okay, all right, this guy's going to push back. ⁓ and it occurred to me. And when I told Matt this, I think his eyes kind of lit up. I said, just for the record, 95 % of my clients live outside of the state of Pennsylvania. So what

Nicole Begley (29:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Heather (29:58)
he is looking at is probably less than 5%. And so if you remove Elevate and private coaching and there's some revenue left in that number, whatever it is, and then you subtract out anyone from out of state, you know, maybe I'll owe a couple thousand on something random, maybe. OK, I don't mean I mean, you know, that's to be determined. But ⁓ I'm requesting because I do it now. I learned a lesson.

Nicole Begley (30:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Heather (30:24)
get

the addresses of your clients ahead of time. I don't have the addresses of everyone. I have a lot. So ⁓ we're sending out emails asking for all of my paying clients to input their address. And here's why you want to do that. For me, that would be great. That's so kind of you. But if you can't do it out of the goodness of your heart for me, do not let the PA Department of Revenue steal money that does not belong to them. That is not to their money. It is unjust.

And we got to stand up to this bureaucracy.

Nicole Begley (30:57)
haha

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, crazy. And I think that's what, yeah. When we were talking off the ledge and like, all right, we're just getting started. mean, and then action girl here jumps in and like, here's your next steps. We're going to find out who's in PA. Who's not in PA. Most of your people are not in PA. We're also going to like, you don't have to do it now, but like, you can also hire a tax attorney that can also come and tell them like, look where, where does this say this is taxable? Because it is not, ⁓ you know, you don't want to necessarily spend money on an attorney, but.

Heather (31:12)
Yeah.

Right.

But if I had to, know, if we had to do that and I talked to Matt today and he said, Heather, I'm consulting a friend of mine who is an attorney in Pittsburgh and his specialty is, like it actually says on the website, tax controversy. That's his specialty. I mean.

Nicole Begley (31:47)
controversy. Like,

I mean, it's not a controversy to me. It seems to be to them, though.

Heather (31:52)
It's not, you know,

it right. So also this is where I've simplified things in my brain. Well, number one, I'm cultivating a deep, deep sense of trust in myself that I'll figure it out. We have to, we'll figure it out, right? And it will be okay. But here's what I'm telling my brain. Auditor made a claim, claims get reviewed. My accountant will handle this period. So

Nicole Begley (32:05)
Yeah.

Heather (32:19)
Then when my brain starts to spiral, ⁓ I just say to it, like I take a deep breath and I'm like, not useful, stick to the system. Not useful, stick to the process. Not useful, what's my next step? And just reminding myself that auditors, make estimates, an auditor made an estimate, estimates get checked.

My account will handle this and everything will get, you know, another one I was thinking was this auditor made an assumption, assumptions get verified with records and laws, and my accountant with or without an attorney will handle this. It will get investigated and it will work out and however it works out. And you know what, side note, even in the worst case scenario, if I do owe some money, which is probable, I have a business savings account.

with money specifically for business emergencies like this. So the money is available. I mean, not $73,000 plus, you know, penalties, but it is available. So again, but you know, when your brain spirals, I think a really helpful thought for everyone is to take a deep breath and say, not useful, stick to the process.

Nicole Begley (33:28)
Interesting penalties, yeah.

Yeah, a hundred percent. my gosh. Thank you for sharing that with us. mean, it is, it is definitely an ongoing letter. If you guys see an email from Heather, please, please share your address so that, she can appropriately get more details. And that's also, I think you guys are going to see that like a lot more from anybody that you're buying any online education from is we have to start asking for more address details, whether it's even just city, state zip or country. ⁓ just because all the

All the tax entities want a piece of the digital world.

Heather (34:15)
They do. And I want, I really

want to extend a huge, huge thank you. I'm so grateful for the people who have already provided their address. mean, people have showed up giving me exactly what I need to put into Good Jobby to run these reports. And I, ⁓ I'm also, listen, I'm like five steps ahead of this guy. He, he thinks he's got something. He doesn't. It's not true. And

I've run reports in Kajabi to show me like lifetime value of my highest customers, like who has spent the most, and none of those people are in Pennsylvania and I have their addresses. So, you know, I've already cut the tax liability, you know, by two thirds, just with that. And even if not everyone replies, it still has significantly dropped it. So it will get resolved. It's just, you know, brother's up there in his office playing dumb or something.

Nicole Begley (35:01)
You're right. ⁓

Heather (35:13)
but we have the documentation and it will get resolved. I think that one thing that just leaves me slightly with some anxious thoughts is that unjust things do happen, you know? And it's not, these laws aren't clear and, you know, good people get hurt by confusing laws and, you know, things don't always work out in the way that's

Nicole Begley (35:27)
Yeah, all around the world.

Heather (35:43)
true, correct and right. That has me a little unsettled.

But I feel, you know, mostly confident in our two pronged approach, first with the digital services and then with the addresses that this is a lot of smoke and not much fire.

Nicole Begley (36:01)
Yeah, 100%.

Heather (36:03)
But anyway, okay, beep, beep, quickly. Good news, good news is that I'm living out my worst case fear and I'm going to be better, faster, smarter, sharper. Nicole, I honestly believe this with every fiber of my being that this is happening for me.

Nicole Begley (36:19)
Yeah, it's going to get your, your system set up even more because as the business grows, then I, know, quite frankly, it probably becomes a bigger auditing target because they see more receipts coming through that may or may not have sales tax attached to them because so much is out of state. ⁓ so like, yeah, I, I, and part of me is like, wait, did I manifest my sales tax audit? I just like kind of knew I'm like, I'm a photography business.

Heather (36:35)
Yes.

Nicole Begley (36:48)
Everything I sell in photography in North Carolina pretty much is taxable. The only thing that's not is your session fee, but the session fee does become taxable if they buy any products. everything, including digital files. So everything's taxable. ⁓ so they see Nicole Bagley photography turning in all sorts of receipts that are not being taxed. So like you look at it you're like, well, of course they're audited me. Like they're, they think that, you know, it's all taxable, but, ⁓ yeah.

Heather (36:53)
Mmm.

Mm. Right.

Nicole Begley (37:18)
I, my, my, my, ⁓ agent that I worked with, I was able to understand the nuances.

Heather (37:25)
No, this guy does not understand. don't know if he's new or if he's on probation or something.

I don't know what's happening. And I just want to be clear. I support paying my tax. I support an auditor doing that. You know, my daughter is actually an auditor. It's like what she does. Yeah. For, for CPA, but a firm, but I, you know, so I'm not like angry about the man, you know,

Nicole Begley (37:39)
Yeah, not for the sales tax, but for businesses. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather (37:51)
or even the system or the process, I am frustrated with the inability to know, understand, and execute the law under which they operate. That doesn't make sense to me that he doesn't know his job. It doesn't make sense to me that he doesn't know what a digital service or what coaching is, and he can just play dumb and say, owe tax on a million dollars?

Nicole Begley (38:01)
Ha ha ha.

I mean,

I could take this train all the way to the station with people not knowing their job and just making up rules and the government currently, we're, we're, just, we'll just, we'll just end that there. ⁓ but yeah, no, it'll be, it'll, it'll be fine. It'll be okay. That's what I said when it happened to me. I was able to flip it in my brain that like, same thing as when you purposely like create a data management system on your computer, your hard drive fails.

Heather (38:22)
Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Nicole Begley (38:46)
Like you can say, well, this is inconvenient and annoying, but it's not a major catastrophe. So. Yeah.

Heather (38:52)
I've always said when it comes to your backup systems, you want

it to be just an inconvenience, but not a catastrophe. I mean, really everything in life can be set up like that. Like if you're just thinking through things. And also there are things I couldn't have foreseen. That, know, and I'm doing the best that I can. And like I said to Matt early on,

Nicole Begley (38:59)
Yeah. huh.

Mm-hmm.

Heather (39:20)
If we truly missed something, then let's get it straightened out and pay it and be clean and clear, know, like 100 % yes. So I've turned on addresses. I said this already for everything that I sell now. If you buy something from me, it's going to ask you for address. Please put that in. So we'll have it moving forward. And deep breath, you know, it's...

It's going to be okay. It's like, I'm trying to fast forward. You know what I do? You know what I do in these situations? I always think to myself, you know, it's going to be Christmas before you know it. It always is. Christmas comes so fast. By the time Christmas is here, mean, Lord willing, this should all be wrapped up, you know? And it...

Nicole Begley (40:02)
⁓ And if not,

again, like it's your you, you have people to handle it for you so you can focus on coaching your people.

Heather (40:10)
I

correct. Okay, good point. I am going to teach some sort of training around this because I want everyone to benefit. That's just the way I immediately think. How can this help others? That's just my default. I will say I cannot imagine going through this without my accountant. So if you don't have an accountant, I don't know. Let me know what you think. Correct me. But I think that's like one of the first things you should invest in is an account.

Nicole Begley (40:37)
Yes. Yes, because

a good accountant should basically pay for themselves because yes, if you're just doing a W-2 job, there's only so much you can do. TurboTax or one of those programs can probably walk you through it. But once you start to have a business, there are so much nuance to the tax code that you want somebody that knows how to help you. Because again, you're not cheating taxes. You're just taking advantage. Taking advantage is even the right word. But it is. You're taking advantage of the

Heather (40:43)
He is.

Nicole Begley (41:06)
the things that they've written into law. Like you're just following the law and you need somebody that's more well-versed in that because I think the tax law book is like, I don't know, like from floor to ceiling in my office. Like it's insane how thick it is. Like no one knows that unless your job is to actually help businesses. And there's so many different specialties of accountants and because of the complexity of the tax law. finding someone that knows small businesses, clutch.

Heather (41:13)
That's it.

You

know what it feels like to me? It feels like he's it almost feels like insurance to me as well. It's like you pay for insurance that you don't ever use until you need it. And then it's a pretty big deal. I don't my account is not cheap. don't I mean, from what I've seen, he's kind of maybe a little bit on the expensive side. And, you know, they take care of our personal and my business taxes and they handle everything. But this is the point where you're like, I am so thankful.

Nicole Begley (41:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Heather (42:02)
that I hired someone at this level who not only knows and understands the law, but believes in what's right and also has the connections he needs, has dealt with these guys, knows the attorneys. He has run complete interference for me. And he said to me on the phone today, he's like, I know this is probably very upsetting to you in ways very heavy, but we will manage this and it will all work out. I mean, basically, yeah.

Nicole Begley (42:27)
Amazing. Awesome. If you guys have any, like if you are listening to this and you're thinking, ⁓ you know, that you realize that you maybe start to kind of handle those processes the same way to where you kind of go through that worst case and let it go and like, let us know, let us know how this landed for you. ⁓

Likewise, maybe if you're someone that gets focused on that and you can't let it go, let us know that too. And maybe we can do another episode to help people learn how to continue to move through it. ⁓ anyway, yeah. I love it. I love it. It's been a great episode. Thanks, everybody, for being here. And we will talk to you next week.

Heather (43:02)
coach you bring somebody on I'll coach them live. ⁓