Nicole (00:00)
In today's episode, we are talking about offering high-end products, how to market those high-end products, how to message those high-end products, and really just how to sell more things and make more money in your business. So stay tuned.

Nicole Begley (00:16)
I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six-figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2,000 to $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six-figure businesses;

that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full-time passion or a part-time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads, welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast.

Nicole (01:15)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast. I am your host, Nicole Bagley, and today I have Tavis and Amy Gild from the One and Only Gild Canvas on the show with me. Welcome guys to the podcast.

Amy & Tavis Guild (01:31)
Thank you. Hello everyone. Happy to be here. This is going to be fun.

Nicole (01:35)
my gosh, I'm so excited. So I've got to say I had heard, I believe it froze from Corinda, Corinda Kinsler is the first person that I heard talk about Giggle Canvas. And she was like, it's not really a canvas. I'm like, all right, I'll, you know, and like she specialized in just mainly focusing on selling that piece of art. And, I am an art, art finished junkie. Like I have.

offered every kind of artwork over my past 15 years of business that's ever been made because I'm like, my God, that's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. I love it all. And I was like, it's a canvas. How special can a canvas be? Well, I feel like you guys shouldn't even call it canvas because it's not even a canvas, even though it's printed on canvas material. is seriously when I got my first one, the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And I tell everyone under the sun, they need to offer Guild Canvas if they are

Amy & Tavis Guild (02:07)
Yeah.

Nicole (02:27)
trying to like offer high-end artwork because it's the best. So well done.

Amy & Tavis Guild (02:31)
Well, thank you. Thank you.

Yes. Yeah. And we love Corinda and, yeah, no, I'm so glad we all found each other. That's so fun.

Nicole (02:38)
Yes.

⁓ my gosh. I love it. So for people that aren't familiar, maybe give them a low down of, of what makes this artwork so special. And then we'll get into, don't worry guys, we're going to talk about marketing and all the juicy stuff too. But to start off kind of what makes this product so unique.

Amy & Tavis Guild (02:55)
Yeah. Well, when we think of, you know, as, as photographers, cause we also own a photography studio. we're practitioners in the industry. We've been, we've had that for almost 17 years now or a little over. And, ⁓ what we find is, that as, as you navigate products in this industry, ⁓ you really have quite the, variety that you can choose from and.

When we first discovered GoCampus just as a studio, what we recognized right away is that it truly is the uncompromised product. And what I mean by that is, is that we use the finest materials, we've always used the finest materials available to us. And we take the craftsmanship to a degree that it's just not able to be duplicated in the way that it's created. And so what you end up with,

is for every Canvas that's made, it's a one-of-a-kind, unique art piece that you get to offer to your clients. And so that's kind of in a quick sentence and nutshell elevator conversation, that's kind of how we see Guild Canvas. And that's how Guild Canvas has always been received for the last.

I mean, it really is a step above. A lot of photographers choose us because we are hand painting acrylic on the face of the canvas. So really, like you said, we could call it guild paintings, not just guild canvas, because it is so different. You can touch and feel the brush stroking. And yeah, I feel like that really sets us apart from other canvas brands.

Nicole (04:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Cause it's not like a, you're not seeing just the canvas material. It's truly just this incredible piece of art and you guys have somewhere like there it's much more sturdy too, that you actually have eaten spaghetti off of it. I have not done that with mine. I'm still a little scared, but I know that you can.

Amy & Tavis Guild (04:48)
It scares me sometimes when y'all

are eating spaghetti off your canvases. might go for it. You can use some Windex or some water and it'll clean right up. It's really hardy. Yes, A two in one.

Nicole (05:03)
Yeah, so it's, you you can always message it to your clients if you know you have this artwork and if you run out of plates, you know, you've got a backup.

Amy & Tavis Guild (05:09)
Yeah,

eat off the family portrait. Yep, there you go.

Nicole (05:13)
I love it. Well, tell us a little bit how you guys went though from, you know, having being a photographer, having studio to now running this incredible art lab. Kind of what did what did that look like?

Amy & Tavis Guild (05:27)
Well, I can tell you a little bit about kind of the history of Guild Canvas. And I think that that oftentimes fills in some of the gaps when we say, hey, how did we get here? So yeah, we started way back in 2008-ish or so as wedding photographers and video company, actually, and then quickly added photography onto that. are continuing to photograph weddings, but at the height of that company, we were photographing anywhere between 50 to 70 weddings a summer.

Nicole (05:56)
But wow.

Amy & Tavis Guild (05:57)
photographers on staff and we were living and breathing the love in the air at weddings for many, many years. And so through that, of course, we got into family portraiture, environmental family portraiture, extended families, high school seniors. And so that's kind of where our specialty is alongside weddings. Well, about seven or eight years ago, there was a photographer here in town, Ken Whitmire, and he is

well known in the industry. He was a photographer for over 60 years. If you're plugged into the PPA and some of those associations, he is one of the highest awarded photographers in the United States receiving the lifetime achievement award among many others. And so really an incredible photographer and an asset to the industry. What a lot of people outside of the industry didn't know is that Ken had started a canvassing company 50 years ago.

And this company was created by the McDonald family. So Doug and Gordon McDonald was a pair of brothers and it's known as strip bonded canvassing and Ken was able to learn this method of canvassing from the founders that created it. And so in our industry, we're still really close to a lot of the first things that have happened, which is, which is really neat. so fast forward to today, there's only a handful of us, United States that still do this method of canvassing at a manufacturing level.

Well, that to Amy and I, when Ken passed away suddenly, we realized, wow, this is not just integral to our studio, but it's also something that is important to the industry. And we knew it was our opportunity to say, hey, let's jump in and see where we can take this company moving forward.

I mean, about 10 years ago when we had our portrait studio though, we were maxing out on what we could even sell our clients. We're like, we're selling an album, our biggest piece of artwork that the lab could produce. And it's like, we're still only making, I mean, I don't know what our highest sale back then was, but say like two or three grand, you know? If they came in and bought everything in our studio, they still couldn't spend enough to have those really high sales.

Nicole (08:06)
Yeah.

Amy & Tavis Guild (08:12)
Um, and so that's when we were like, we do need a product that is elevated. We took out all our old studio samples that were non-guild canvas, anything smaller than 40 inches. threw away, it was heartbreaking, but we had to get rid of it all. And we just fully committed to only selling guild canvas. And that is when our averages started hitting so high. mean, I'm so proud of this guy. He can just sell, you know, so many guild canvases, but, so that's the reason why we, um, we, so we made that change. And then in 2016, when Ken passed.

Nicole (08:33)
What?

Amy & Tavis Guild (08:41)
I had just had my daughter, Joby, like she was born in December, 2016. And Tavis is like, they're going to close this business. I think we need to buy it. You know, and I was like, so tired and stressed out because I had a newborn and I'm like, okay, all right, let's do it. And that was the beginning of our journey. So when people say like, how long have you owned Guild Canvas? I'll say, well, now Joby is eight. So yeah, it's a good way for me to remember it too. I'm not the best. She's incredible at timelines.

Nicole (09:01)
Wow.

Hahaha

Amy & Tavis Guild (09:09)
new rough numbers that I get kind of close.

Nicole (09:11)
⁓ man. Well, that's awesome. I'm so glad that you guys were able to do that because yeah, it's, it's really just, yeah, an industry, ⁓ an incredible opportunity for the industry to have access to something that's beautiful and handmade and, wonderful like this. yeah. So I also agree. You were just starting to say Amy about how you needed this high end piece. And I think that is a critical piece. One thing that I,

tend to teach. I love to teach pricing. I love to geek out over numbers, marketing, all of that stuff, all the business stuff. And I teach a lot that these photography businesses kind of go into four steps, like four levels, if you will. So maybe when you're first starting out, you're trying to figure out how to use your camera that you're, you know, and I tell people like, this is the only time that you are allowed to do like a low cost, all inclusive because you're just like trying to figure it out. And yeah, go ahead and get paid while you're bootstrapping, building your business.

But then, right, let's start offering some products. So they might go to whatever one of the major labs are and be like, let me choose an album and artwork and a couple of prints and digital files, you know, and maybe start to get your first four figure sale or two or you're selling products. But then to get to level three, which is like a two to $3,000 average, which I feel is like the bare minimum to kind of reach sustainability as a portrait photographer or that like kind of super high end lux option of

three to $5,000 plus sales for our portrait client that you need to start elevating what you're offering and having something available. So I originally added the Guild Canvas to my lineup as a price anchor. I was like, it's going to be so much more expensive than my other stuff, but you know, whatever, let's put it on there. If I sell it, great, but it's probably just going to be a price anchor.

It is so beautiful that I've had almost all of my clients choose to do a guild canvas instead of doing my lower cost artwork. so now as I'm looking into my pricing for this coming year, I think I'm actually taking some of the other things off and I'm just going to have guild and, ⁓ and yeah, there's one other piece that, that I, I liked from Bay photo this year, but, ⁓ but like that said, I'm like, all right, let's, let's.

pull it all away and just focus on that one thing. So I think having that, that high end something is just such a great way to add to the bottom line of our business and serve our clients at a higher level and differentiate ourselves because yeah, every other client or every other photographer is selling the same stuff.

Amy & Tavis Guild (11:44)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

And I firmly believe in those sales meetings that less is more when they come in for the ordering meeting We just want to focus on how they're getting artwork and you know the emotions surrounding it all not like this is product a this is part B this is part C in spending like a half hour just explaining it all putting so much emphasis on a product when really the emphasis full for us we want it to be on the artwork and so

Nicole (11:55)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (12:14)
Less options is always better in my opinion. Well, and I love Nicole that you started with, know, so many, all of us are somewhere in a journey from when we first started our studio to where we are now, right?

I think when we first start, obviously, anytime you start anything, a sport, a hobby, a business, you don't have your 10,000 hours in. So you don't know what even questions to ask sometimes. And I think that a lot of studios, I'd say most of them, they start on the emotional side, meaning that...

their clients that are coming in, their buying triggers are around emotional reactions to the experience they just had with you. So whether it was family or pet portraits or, you know, maternity, whatever it is, there's an emotional tie there. And what we've seen is, is the longer studios are in business and the more that they learn that there is somewhat of a cutoff, a financial cutoff of how much people will be willing to invest on an emotional level before you have to start dipping into the prestige

just bucket. so having a product in your lineup that's able to take the emotions which gets the clients attention and then pull them into the prestige of having something that is again, as we've described, know, Guild Canvas, but also some of the other things like past presidents have Guild Canvases in their home. You know, we have we have canvases in every major building in the United States, know, celebrity stuff comes through.

Nicole (13:39)
wow.

Amy & Tavis Guild (13:45)
You know, it is a very prestigious product that also is not available to the consumer except through a professional studio. So they do not have access to this unless they work with us portrait artists. And so when we talk about what it is that we're offering them, know, so canvas, this is just simply,

for those on audio, this is just something to display in their home. I'm pointing to a canvas here behind me that is going to solve their problem. It's going to be their value system on display. And when they can solve it at an emotional level and then also at a prestigious level, then you're able to really pull your averages up. You're able to pull your brand strength up. So your sitting fees and all that stuff can increase in value because your brand is getting stronger.

There's so many benefits to that. And then when you begin to isolate those prestigious offerings, then you're able to really cut out all the things that can be distracting, that keep people in somewhat of a financial loop of trying to make a financial decision in a sales experience versus them making a decision that's going to best solve their problem in a way that's going to impact them.

in the greatest way possible. those are some of the things that we've seen Guild do for many studios is able to pull that buyer into that prestigious zone so they can spend more and have more impact in their homes and their spaces that are displaying these.

Nicole (15:22)
I love that. So to do that, do we have to look at how we're messaging what we offer? how do we need to adjust the kind of the picture that we're painting of our studio for the public in order to start to hit that? Or does that happen after they've had the experience and then they see the quality of that product? Like kind of where do we start to pull that prestige lever?

Amy & Tavis Guild (15:49)
I would say you start from the very, very beginning with the brand messaging you're giving on your website, on your social media, in your marketing materials. Like if you look at every photographer out there on Instagram, they're all posting images, like their favorite images that they took. And you know, they are, they're great and it's fine to post those things. But if you look at our Instagram for the Guild Gallery, our portrait brand, we really focus on only showing photos of campuses, only talking about canvases, the end product, you know.

the emotions that it brings from that whole experience. So yeah, we'll post behind the scenes of sessions and all the normal photography things, but we start from the very beginning with saying like, we are known for selling canvases. Here's a quick story. Yesterday, I was photographing like a commercial photo shoot and a gal I met for the first time was like, I really want to do portraits of me and my husband. And two other people are separate, unrelated, are selling for me because they're like, not only is Amy a great photographer,

But they have amazing canvases. It looks like a painting. I put it up and everyone notices it. So I'm like, these people are out there. So like doing the work for me, it sells itself. So I just loved that my brand messaging is working. You know, they didn't say like, Amy's another photographer. Great. You know, whatever. But then they were like, and the canvases, that's what I've known for. So I thought that was kind of cool that my, my brand messaging is working. I've started from the very beginning. just, that's all I talk about from the start on the website, all that. Yeah.

Nicole (17:15)
Yep.

Amy & Tavis Guild (17:16)
What we've all heard the saying is somewhere along the lines of whatever it is you show is what you sell. Well, that's what Amy's talking about is if we're only showing digital images on our social sites, on our websites, it's not the final product, then we are inadvertently giving the client permission to ask for digital images because that's what they see as the final product.

Nicole (17:23)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (17:43)
In addition to that, you know, that we sell what we show, we also sell what we say. And so if we're talking about specific sizes, and we say, well, an eight by 10 costs this or whatever. If at any point we are talking to client about that, we are giving them permission to purchase that size of product, right? And so in the same as we talk about other products, if we're like, man, I want to sell more Guild Canvas and...

Nicole (17:49)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (18:10)
And it's like, well, what other products do you have? they start going through all of the products they have. Well, for every product that they share with that client, they are giving them permission to that client to get those products. And so if they want to sell more prestigious products, then we have to make sure that we're limiting what it is that we're showing the client to just the things we're passionate about and that we want to sell. And the same with what it is that we talk about.

Nicole (18:37)
Yep. I love it. So I can hear people in the audience saying, Nicole, Tavis, Amy, I want to sell more Guild Canvas, but like, I am terrified to have something that expensive as my only art piece. Like what do you have to say to people that are just, you know, they see they're still freaking out about the numbers because it is more expensive because of that's all handmade, but it's a hundred percent worth it. Yeah.

Amy & Tavis Guild (18:55)
⁓

Thank you.

Let me tell you a story, because this is how I got to that point. I did not wake up with this realization. I was at a conference, it was actually a conference that was hosted here in Yakima for over 30 years. It's the International Wall Portrait Conference. And I was here with many other very prestigious photographers, one of those being Bill Sorensen. He's now since passed, but he was...

I'll say legend in the industry in addition to many other photographers that were there. And so I had talked with Bill many times, you know, as we're navigating the conference and I'd ask Bill, go, Bill, will you come to my home studio? We had our studio at the house at the time. Will you come to my home studio and just, I would love your feedback. And I just kind of left it open ended there. So he's like, absolutely Tabith, I'd love that. So we drove on down to my house.

and he walks in and he's looking around and whatnot. And then he looks at me square in the eyes. if for those of you that maybe got to know Bill or spent some time with Bill, he can be abrupt and very direct and use some pretty choice words to get your attention. And he said, I won't say exactly what he said, but he said, is going on here? Why don't you just pick something?

Nicole (20:14)
you

Amy & Tavis Guild (20:21)
And I go, what are you talking about, Bill? And I'm like, you know, I'm like, you know, getting a little sheepish there. And he's just like, you have everything anyone's ever offered because we had metal prints, acrylics floated on this floated on that mounted on this matter. I had everything. had everything. And he goes, just pick something. And, and he's like, what are you passionate about? Which one do you like talking about? Which one do you think is the, is the best in your eyes? And I go, well, this one. And I pointed to a guild and, and he goes,

then that's the one. He's just like, what's the problem? And I go, well, what if they want other options? I go, and I ask him, go, what if they ask for other options? And he goes, is that something that they ask for? Is that something that they ask because you give them so many options? And I go, I don't know. He's just like, remove everything out of this room and just sell that. I go, okay, okay. And so I started taking everything off the walls.

And I put it down in the basement. And this is where Amy, alluded to it earlier in this conversation. She was scared. And she also was just like, what are you doing? We've spent thousands of dollars on all those samples. What are you doing? Yeah. And I go, you know, Hey, Bill said this and I think it's worth, know, again, he has well over 10,000 hours in this industry. I think he knows what he's talking. I'm going to give it a go. So we put it all down there. And, and Bill gave me this one tip. said, if for some reason,

Nicole (21:27)
Right?

Yeah.

Amy & Tavis Guild (21:47)
You have a client that out of nowhere says, I want my portrait on metal. That's the only way I'll do it. Tabas, you know how to get it on metal. Just say, okay, just move on and say, okay, but I got a feeling no one's going to ask for that. And so that was over 11, 12 years ago. That was a very long time ago. And the amount of clients that have asked for anything other than canvas and well over a decade is zero.

Nicole (21:55)
Yeah.

wow.

Amy & Tavis Guild (22:14)
The only thing that

everyone's in like one in 250 clients, they may say, well, do you have loose prints? And the answer is also no. And they say, ⁓ okay. And we move on. It's never stopped one person from getting their value systems on display on a canvas in their home. And I tell you what, it was like Christmas morning for me and for Amy, cause we know we don't have any other products to worry about. This main thing.

Nicole (22:25)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (22:41)
It becomes a part of our brand and so we literally on top of our studio now it says portraits on canvas You know, it's just very straightforward. It's a part of our brand It's any of our clients that walk into another client's home. They can look at it and say oh, that's a guild That's a guild. There's no you know, so our brand strength in the valley has gotten incredibly strong because of it It just like you know, and what I'm talking about isn't unique to our industry

You could look at auto manufacturers. could look at, you know, like you could glance at a vehicle and if all of the branding was taken off just because of the shapes of the vehicle, you'd be able to say what vehicle it is, right? Same with handbags for you ladies that are very savvy in that. If you were to remove all the branding from a handbag, you can look at that handbag and say, I know, know, I know where that handbag came from. So this is not something that is unique to our industry. This is the basically how consumerism

works and how branding works is they dial in. They're not trying to create something for everyone, but instead they say, here is what we've created and we will be known for this. Okay. I forget your response to you said people will be scared to make this switch. And I agree. is scary. However, I would say if you want to move to that level three and four, like you were talking about, you're never going to accidentally.

have a $25,000 sale, a $50,000 sale on your lower end products. You're just not, you have to have like those whoppers or those ways for people to spend a lot. And maybe there are some people listening that have never even heard those numbers in photography, but I'm telling you, they're out there. Tavis has sold that much. Other photographers are ordering from us all the time. These, you know, big ass canvases that they've sold for a lot. it's cool. You're gonna change your rating on the podcast because you said no.

Nicole (24:05)
Bye.

Okay.

Yep. Uh-huh.

Hahaha

Amy & Tavis Guild (24:31)
But it is really scary and it might not be for everyone. are some people that are happy, know, they also work full time and they just want to just have, you know, those smaller sales and just have it be a hobby and that's totally.

Nicole (24:34)
Hahaha

Oh

yeah. So I actually have my, one of my like industry myths is the, whole myth of the part-time photographer where people are like, I only do this part-time. I don't need to be profitable. I'm like, well, no, you need to be more profitable because you're only doing this part-time. um, no, no, no, will stand. will, I will plant my flag here in this, in this little piece of just like, you know, and.

Amy & Tavis Guild (24:58)
Mmm.

Well, okay, that was me trying to be nice then.

Nicole (25:17)
I think it's almost easier part-time too because all right, say you have a full-time job and you're doing this because you love to do it you want to create this little business on the side, whether it's to fund vacations, whether it's to grow, to take over your full-time job and leave your corporate job. But when you're doing it part-time, you have the ability to really set it up for the perfect clients. You don't feel that like, my gosh, I need to pay my rent. So I need to take, like, I need to like, you have this desperation of trying to book.

people that maybe aren't the right fit. yeah, anyway, part-time people out there, you'll want to guild canvas too.

Amy & Tavis Guild (25:53)
All

right, thank you. She's just saying it like it is. But really, Nicole, the simplest way to think about when any photographer is saying, what products should I offer, that a couple things is first, whatever you offer, you have to be passionate about. Because if you're just simply offering it to fill a financial gap or because your lab offers it or someone told you to offer it or anything like that and you're not passionate about it,

Nicole (26:05)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (26:23)
you are not going to sell it and your clients are not gonna be excited about it either. You cannot fake passion. And real passion makes a big difference in that experience. And then outside of that, it's also saying, what do I want to be known for? Even if you're part-time, as you're building your business, just say, what products do I wanna offer that are going to be a part of my identity as a business?

And so maybe that is guild, maybe that isn't guild, and that's okay. But ultimately, if you want an identity that is both emotional and prestigious and has impact in the community, you wanna make sure you're surrounding yourself with products that accomplish that.

Nicole (27:05)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I actually think the easiest way, you know, is kind of, I think how I did it too, where it was like, all right, let me just add this in as a price anchor, as a high end option for my clients, thinking that it was just going to like make it so much easier to sell the lower end stuff, where then people saw it and you might be surprised where then all of a sudden you feel then secure to be like, all right, forget it. We're getting rid of the low stuff. We're going all in on this.

Amy & Tavis Guild (27:32)
Yeah. sometimes

when you're offering more prestigious products, like a very nice album company or a deckled edge, unicorn sprinkled paper printed something, whatever it is, I joke. whenever we do that, it's coming. It's coming. It's going to be great. It's going be great. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole (27:50)
Where are the unicorn sprinkled papers? I want the unicorn paper. Okay, okay, it's a new product from Guild. You guys heard it here first.

Amy & Tavis Guild (27:58)
But

no, when we think about that, think, ⁓ man, our cost of goods, our cost of goods, they're going to be so much higher. I'm not going to make as much. And what I think that people forget is that the additional income that comes from offering higher end products. And I've been able to witness over these last eight years, many studios hit incredible financial numbers, like very impressive financial numbers.

And again, I will not solely contribute it to Guild, but it was a tool they used alongside the other things they were already equipped with. And when we have the right tools around us, we're really able to soar and exceed even our own expectations.

Nicole (28:43)
Yeah, for sure. I love it. So do you have recommendations for people of where, like if they're marketing their business and trying to figure out where these people are, do you have best practices that you recommend for marketing our businesses when we're offering these kind of higher end options?

Amy & Tavis Guild (29:04)
Yeah. Well, maybe Tavis, you can talk about like how to find those people. But for me, a couple of actual tools I use because I do the marketing for our businesses is with Guild Canvas, we have an easy add on of a marketing video where I go and film the canvas around in production and give like a really nice professionally filmed and edited video from start to finish. And we have that on our website.

So I'm not saying that specifically finds people, but once they come across our website, they see that front and center. And also, with every canvas someone orders, we can do a brush stroking rail and product photos. I'm just talking now for actual things to post on your website and on your social media, is we give photographers those tools. So even if they only have one Guild Canvas, they can have several different things to post just to start the conversation with people.

Nicole (29:45)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (29:57)
Did you want to talk about how to actually get those people? You know, knowing that like anytime we're talking to a very diverse group of photographers and studios and sizes, some are in the house, some meet at coffee shops, some have physical locations. You know, the marketing budget, if you can see my air quote fingers, sometimes ranges from zero to, you know, substantial amounts. And so,

I remember when we were out of our house, one of the things that was really important to us is to be rooted in our community. so taking advantage of everything that is happening in your community. all of your, you know, auctions and not just having an auction item, but getting involved with the auction, you know, saying, Hey, can I help? Can I photograph this compliment? You know, you don't have to pay me. just want to be here.

Because I believe in this cause and I believe what it's doing in our in our area And I want to be rooted in this I want to get to know the names of that are on the committee and the and the President and the main people of that and so when you do that over a long period of time you do indeed become rooted in the community you become a trusted You know business in in the area and so when people we have to remember this when a client

has a problem. we'll use a doctor analogy, say you have a cough and you don't have a primary doctor and you're like, man, oh man, something's not right inside my body. What doctor gets the first opportunity to help you? was it's whatever doctor comes to mind from past, you know, advertising they had or past experience or a referral from someone. Hey, who do you guys use for a doctor? You know, that's how they're going to find it. Right. And so if we're not in

the mouths of the people in our community as when someone says, really need family portraits, I really need legacy pet portraits, I really need maternity portraits, and we're not who comes to mind in our community, we are not going to get those clients. Someone else who has...

spend a little bit more time or a little bit more effort or been a little bit more successful being rooted in the community is going to get that work. And so that's where we built a lot of our foundational stuff with our studio years ago is saying, know, to this day, we're still very involved in all the private schools, all the associations, the women's shelters, the, mean, everything, all the things that we care about, we're highly involved in and we never ever charge those associations for us to be there. We are just there.

And so anytime anyone has a portrait need, you know, we're, the name that comes up. Now that's the, free unpaid, know, obviously there's our time. Yeah. Yeah. You know that, but, on the other side of that, ⁓ if, if we get into traditional marketing, which, know, before the advent of the internet and of course, social media, you would have to buy a billboard. You would have to buy an ad thing in the newspaper on the back of a menu at a restaurant and all those things.

And so we also need to be coming alongside those things and saying, yeah, I need to be running ads on the platforms I'm on. need to be running ads on search engines. need to be getting connected with other AdSense in your area to get out there because we need to get in front of some people that otherwise we wouldn't be connecting with. And so there is a point in business that

building something and thinking people will come is not good enough. You have to go out and tell them that you built it. And that's what advertising is, is saying, hey, this is who I am, this is what I've done, this is what I'm known for, here's the problems I can solve for you. Well, and another thing too is you're saying, how do you find the people that want to invest in these higher end experiences? And what we have found and what we see for a lot of photographers is that you're not

Nicole (33:51)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (34:02)
necessarily trying to target the people in your town with the most money because if they don't value portraits, they don't value portraits. They're not going to spend the money on it. So we have had experiences with people in our studio that have plenty of money come up in very expensive cars and didn't buy anything because they didn't value it. And then we have hung gilt canvases in trailer homes before because they valued it. So sometimes the experience like the ideal client can be made. We don't always have to find them. It can be

Nicole (34:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (34:32)
just finding the people that value the experience and then they will make the time and the money for it, you know, so.

Nicole (34:38)
Yeah. I've had several clients come back, you know, say no at first, but then come back a year or two later once they've saved money to work with me. So it's, it, a no is not always a no. It might just might be a not right now kind of situation. Yeah. I also do agree with the getting out in your community. think that there is.

Amy & Tavis Guild (34:47)
Hmm, that's great.

Right, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole (34:59)
Especially now where we get more disconnected and it's easier and easier to stay home and just, I'll just post on social and all my clients will just magically come from you guys. It's not 2010. Posting on Facebook is not what it was. Yeah, right. And even then, like there's so many ads people are bombarded with that they, you're, you're, you're a little bit more skeptical of them.

Amy & Tavis Guild (35:12)
I know. No one even really sees it if you don't pay for it.

Nicole (35:28)
So being able to make those community connections and I personally built my business on charitable marketing. So silent auctions, but also doing like special offering, special sessions for supporters of charities. And I mean, that just never goes out of style. Charities are always looking to raise money. They're always have a whole bunch of supporters that love their mission. And as soon as you align with that mission, now they automatically love you and

Yeah. And, and then working with referrals when I was photographing families in Pittsburgh before I moved, and before I switched to all pets, I mean, I had a very robust family photography business that I did not market at all because it had become all word of mouth because you know, one family with kids in elementary school knows a lot of other families with kids in elementary school. And it just.

It just keeps on going. So yeah, making those connections, getting people in front of your lens. I also love how you talked about just offering, you know, free services to some of these maybe nonprofits or people that you want to make connections with. I think there's a stigma in the industry from so many educators saying never work for free. You're ruining the industry. You can never do anything for free. And I think we need to be careful that we're doing it for a reason for free and not just like

sure, I'll do it for free because I'm scared to ask for money. But like in situations where you're like, want to give back to this organization, like I think that's fine.

Amy & Tavis Guild (37:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Our idea to do it for free. Like we want to be generous. It's not like everybody asking for something. We're like, okay, fine. We'll do it for free. Yeah. It feels more generous. We can speak a little bit to the psychology of that too. Cause I think that when we talk about marketing, there are these, these things and these messages. And I'm sure even people out there have heard me say some things that, know, within your studio and your brand, you, you know, you don't say pick.

Nicole (37:25)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (37:30)
You don't say, you know, hang or blow up or, know, we have all these bad words. Yeah. You pick as a picture, right? We have all these bad words that we're like, we don't say that. I'm not a photographer. I'm a portrait artist. have all these things, right? But when we are out trying to do what in marketing, get people's attention, right? So first and foremost, we have to see where is their attention. And then we have to persuade them to look over at us. And so when we're in that environment, you have to use vocabulary.

Nicole (37:35)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (38:00)
that they are expecting to see and that captures their attention. And so if I'm doing a senior portrait promotion, I know this is going to be crazy to hear. Tavis will put free senior picks. Oh my gosh, Tavis. You offer this procedure, you're a prestigious brand, you're obviously, you're ruining everything, Tavis, you're ruining it. Yeah. You're ruining it. You're ruining it, Tavis. And so then what happens is, is what? Well, they see that.

Nicole (38:14)
That is a mortal, mortal sin in the photography industry, especially if you're going to try to go high, high ticket.

Amy & Tavis Guild (38:29)
They say, I'm interested in something. now have their attention. And once we have someone's attention, what happens? My vocabulary then matches my brand and the experience when they walk in our studio. I don't say free. I don't say photographer. I don't say pick. I don't say blow up, you know, a picture. ⁓ you know, we, talk about it in a prestigious sense, but

we won't have the opportunity to do that if we don't get their attention. And so that's where I'm sure many people maybe watched the Super Bowl this last year. And I know some people watch it for the football itself and other people watch it for the commercials. For that seal, right? Okay, so one game that Amy and I play with our friends when we're watching the Super Bowl is, is who can guess what the product is in the commercial first? What is the

Nicole (39:00)
Hmm.

⁓ well, I know if there's a Clydesdale,

then I know that one.

Amy & Tavis Guild (39:24)
Yeah, well maybe maybe or

it might be a it might be a you know a deodorant company of some suave guy riding a horse on the beach. You don't know anymore, but what they're doing and implementing again. This isn't Tavis's random idea for marketing is they are spending all the time right at the beginning of that commercial to get your attention and then once they have it they say ⁓ and this is what we're known for. This is what we do. Hi, I'm Tavis. I'm a photographer. I create beautiful portraits.

Nicole (39:49)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (39:53)
Right? And so those are the things that are happening all around us. And so you would say, you know, Budweiser or Pepsi or whatever, they would never do. Yes, they will. They will do what it will take to get your attention good or bad sometimes. And then once they have your attention, they will then draw that towards the solution to the problem that you may have and why you may want to consume their product or their service.

Nicole (40:08)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (40:19)
And so that's why when we're all out there marketing you guys, we have to remember that first is I'm not saying to, to, you know, delete every professional word on your website and all that stuff. I'm specifically talking about promotional things that we are trying to get someone's attention with. We have to use vocabulary and we have to use, ⁓ you know, ways to, to, say, Hey, let's talk, let's come in here.

And if we only stay in our, well, I won't ever say that word. I won't ever post that. won't ever do it. We kind of get ourselves in trouble there because then we won't even have an opportunity to talk about the value that we can create.

Nicole (40:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's right. You won't even have the conversation. So I'm curious, what is the offer for your free senior picks? Like how, what does that look like from kind of ad to bring them into a full client?

Amy & Tavis Guild (41:01)
So.

Hahaha.

Well, I like the traditional senior rep program, right? Yeah. I mean, well, so it's it's kind of so I, I have what I call a prove it model, meaning that I'm willing to risk my time. And of course, our studios, you know, labor and money and all that. I'm willing to risk that to prove that I can add value to someone who needs a portrait experience.

Nicole (41:14)
Yep.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (41:40)
And so my rep program is, not your traditional rep program, meaning that, you know, my, my reps aren't, ⁓ they aren't repping. They're not, they're they're not, they, exist, you know, to, to have a unique senior experience with me and to build enough value to where those reps and those parents and families are actually investing in.

Nicole (42:04)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (42:05)
you know what it is that, that we offer. And so I bring on a lot of, you know, reps per se, but they are not required to go out and find other seniors. Naturally what happens under this Prove It model is that they do tell their friends, they are very excited about it. And it naturally brings in a lot of people, but when my reps come in, I give them everything for free. give them the session for free. It's a custom session. It's a little bit longer than normal sessions, multiple outfit changes, all that good stuff.

I give the parents a complimentary 8x10 canvas, framed, ready for the wall. I give them, I think, five digital images, printable up to 8x12. So they could technically come to me and purchase nothing and get a number of stuff. But through the improvement model, I proved to them that there's no way that that's going to be good enough. They're going to want the rest of the portraits. They're going to want something more significant in their home and on the wall.

Nicole (42:40)
huh.

Mhm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (43:04)
and then we're able to do that. Now, as I say that some people are like, Tavis, I could never do that. They'll only leave with that. And so this is also where you have to know where are your strengths as a photographer. My strengths are very much so in sales and building value and whatnot. And so if you align with some of those, adopting some of these ideas to this model may be good. If you feel like you have some weaknesses, you just have to put some guardrails in place so that that way you can't accidentally get hurt.

Nicole (43:14)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (43:33)
if they come through and truly don't get anything, but also know that I need to grow in some of these areas so I can build that value a little better.

Nicole (43:41)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And it's such an important thing too, because maternity photos, newborn photos, there's an obvious event that's attached to them. Wedding photos, like I know I need to hire a wedding photographer, even high school senior to a little bit more of a degree because they're graduating high school. So maybe it's before, maybe it's right after, but sometime around June of the year they're graduating, they're going to want to get senior photos done. But then you look at pet photos and there is

It's so easy for clients to be like, yeah, I want to do that next week, next week, next month, next year. And it just gets pushed down the road. So being able to have some periodic different promotions or something with some sort of urgency to get them to make a decision and commit is really important because otherwise it can just get kicked down the road a little bit.

Amy & Tavis Guild (44:37)
Yeah, it's really important to us though that we never feel people don't feel like we're baiting and switching them like we never want to say like come in and get this but you have to spend money to walk out the door because that's where the bad reviews the bad reputation comes from we do not want to be known for that we would rather have one person walk out the door with just their 8 by 10 and five images you know have those bad that bad stigmatism so anyway yeah

Nicole (44:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

no, 100%. I agree for sure. I'm a big, big believer in making sure everybody knows all the expectations upfront and what the prices are and yeah, no bait switching.

Amy & Tavis Guild (45:12)
Yeah. And I would say that

in, marketing, it's so important to remember that everything. So pet portraits, definitely that, that can be a little bit more difficult than, than like a maternity. Like they're, that baby's going to come out, you know, like it's going to happen. got to do a senior, they're going to graduate all the stuff you just said. Right. But we have to make sure that when we're outside of some of those categories where it's a triggered event and there's something that's for sure going to happen that we are magnifying the problem.

Nicole (45:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right.

Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (45:42)
And so

when a pet owner has a pet, there are problems that they have. I'm not talking about fear-based problems of someday your pet's gonna die. That's kind of absurd, right? And can really, but I mean, there's some truth to that with legacy pet work and whatnot, but you have to be delicate with it. You have to be delicate. But what's the problem is sometimes the problem is they love their pet. When they get home from work, it's the first family member to greet them.

Nicole (45:56)
Yeah, no it is. There's a lot of people that, yeah, that something happens quickly.

Amy & Tavis Guild (46:12)
They're excited, it changes, it releases chemicals in their brain, their body feels good. yes, I get to relax, I'm around this animal. All of those things are happening. And so they view their pet as a very special and unique relationship. And when you think about promotion saying, I need to magnify that and say, it's important that we document that. It's important that we capture that. It's important that we have that on display, our value systems on display.

Nicole (46:12)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (46:41)
And when the client or future client is convinced that we can solve that problem for them, that's when they do convert into the experience and they end up performing really well. And so sometimes, you know, we've been guilty of this, we get really caught up with the gimmicks of, know, get this much money, get this much credit, you get, know, all these things and it's all about buying something. Well, I can tell you right now, you know, people don't have a canvas problem, right?

Nicole (47:02)
Mm-hmm.

Amy & Tavis Guild (47:08)
That's a secondary solution to the primary problem, which is, you know, hey, my family is getting older or, you know, my seniors graduating or my pet is getting older or my, pet is so special to me. I just, I just want to capture this season of the pet, the right now. And, and so those are the things that in marketing, we have to remember and not get distracted with just the money elements to persuade them to come through our experience.

Nicole (47:16)
Thank

Nah.

Yeah, for sure. I always say you don't want to be cold where you're getting like every, every other day. It's like, Hey, save, save 10%, 50%, buy one, get one. Like there's definitely ways to do different promotions. Uh, you know, I'm personally a big fan of a value add kind of promotion where it's still the same price, but like, Oh, you get a little bit something more or just some different, different things like that to encourage, to encourage that.

Amy & Tavis Guild (47:44)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Nicole (48:01)
my gosh. Well, this has been so good. Thank you so much guys for taking the time to chat with us today. You guys definitely need to go check out Guild Canvas. is unbelievable. Just absolutely incredible. And the one that my first experience when I was ordering my sample image, so many eyeballs go on this file before it gets printed and throughout the process that I think it was

think it was you, Amy, that sent me an email and like, Hey, did you know there's a little clone track over here, which it was a file I had already printed, like clients that already ordered an image of it. in their house. It was like so minor. So it wasn't big enough that I even noticed it when it was printed prior. And, ⁓ anyway, so you guys are in good hands anytime you choose. I love it. Do you have any last minute, kind of.

Amy & Tavis Guild (48:32)
No.

No.

Thank you for the kind words. We appreciate that.

Nicole (48:55)
any motivation or anything else you want to say to all those photographers out there that are, you know, just slogging through trying to build this business.

Amy & Tavis Guild (49:03)
Well, what I'd say is that this conversation is so great and that Amy and I love new friends. And so if you come find us, we would love to have more conversations with you, marketing, sales, products, all that good stuff. And that's one thing I love about our industry that I think is really unique is just the meaningful relationships we get to create with everyone. in no way do we want any part of our talk here today to be a commercial.

you know, for guilds, but more or less just saying, you know, it's a way for us to come alongside each other in our industry and offer, you know, superior solutions for our clients. And so I'm excited for your listeners, those that already offer guilds, great. Those that don't, that's totally fine. If you still want to come hang out, we have our Facebook group, the Guild Canvas Club. So if you're a photographer, you can...

head on over and join all of our conversations there. Believe it or not, it's not all about Canvas. We talk about everything in there from marketing to sales to, you know, so it's a real great community. But Amy, what comes to mind for you? yeah, just find me on Instagram at Guild Canvas and we'll chat there. love it.

Nicole (50:01)
Thank you.

Awesome.

Awesome. Thanks guys. Yeah, everybody go check them out. Reach out to Amy at Guild Canvas on Instagram and let them know that you guys enjoyed this conversation and I'll talk to everybody next week. Bye everybody.

Amy & Tavis Guild (50:27)
Bye

bye.