Nicole Begley (00:00)
Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast. in observance of Halloween, I have ghosted you for the past month and I apologize. my gosh, what has been happening? well, the last fitting that the last episode that we left out left off on here was Overwhelm, where Heather and I were talking about burnout, overwhelm, just kind of like what's the difference between the two? And yeah, I didn't realize that I was.
Definitely circling the burnout drain this summer. And then September happened, and I headed off to France to teach a back-to-back workshop with Shelley Paulson in the south of France in the Camargue region, photographing horses and dogs. And it was absolutely incredible. And those trips just absolutely fill my soul. I love teaching them so, so, so much. All the different workshops that we do. but
When I'm there, it is full on. I mean, there is there is barely time to check in with my team or check in with email. It is crazy town. So even though we had a couple podcasts pre-recorded before I left, I just never could get around to doing the show notes, writing the emails, like getting them out and published. So for that, I apologize. but I am back and we have some incredible shows coming up over the next several weeks.
And yeah, I just wanted to say welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast. It's been a while since I said that. today's conversation, I am chatting with Dave Mays in Australia. We are talking about photographing cats, talking about books, talking about how he has built a really unique, very successful business and a lot of wonderful takeaways. So stay tuned.
Nicole Begley (01:45)
I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six-figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2,000 $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six-figure businesses.
that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full-time passion or a part-time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads, welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast.
Nicole Begley (02:46)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Bagley, and today I have a special guest all the way from Melbourne, Australia. I have Dave's Dave Mays from Instinct Pet Photography. And my gosh, I've been working with Dave and he's been an Elevate for a while, and it's been a few years, and I'm really excited to catch back up with you, Dave. Find out what's happening in your business, talk about some book book projects you've been doing.
And really talk about like the the redheaded stepchild of pet photography, which is cat photography.
Dave (03:22)
gosh, yeah, it absolutely is. hi Nicole, thanks for having me on. Yeah.
Nicole Begley (03:25)
Yeah, of course.
Dave (03:27)
look, yeah, I've been a pet photographer for a couple of years now. and I specialize in photos with cats, dogs and people. But like cats really has become one of my niches alongside photos of people with their pets.
Nicole Begley (03:40)
Yeah.
Dave (03:40)
and I could talk about cats all day, photographing cats all day. You're probably gonna have to turn off my microphone.
but I I I have so much to sort of say about just they're such weird, beautiful animals and I think just photographing them really brings together so many aspects of different styles of photography. You know, a cat photo session is like a mix of portraits. It's a mix of almost real estate photography.
Nicole Begley (04:02)
Mm.
Dave (04:02)
weirdly enough. landscape photography, just they're such a unique animal to specialise in and they're hard to photograph, but they are just so rewarding.
Nicole Begley (04:11)
I mean, and they are just stunningly beautiful. I'm a cat person. I mean, I love my dog, but I definitely love cats. So I mean, you're having like a little lion in your house. They're just like so entertaining.
Dave (04:22)
Yeah. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. I'm like I kind of think of it like wildlife photography indoors. like
Nicole Begley (04:30)
Yes.
Dave (04:31)
th the very, very first time I photographed a cat, I remember it was a a friend and I'd come over to get some photos for him alongside while I was photographing dogs. And we sat down and we had a coffee and I set up my seventy to two hundred mil and we just kinda hung out.
And waited for opportunities for the cat to kind of emerge and get some environmental shots around the house. And it was super relaxed. It felt like a conversation from start to finish. he loved the photos. I was pretty happy with how they turned out. And it just felt like no other style of photography I'd done before. You know, just kind of hanging out and waiting for moments to emerge and spending a lot of time on the ground photographing cats. Yeah.
Nicole Begley (05:08)
Yep.
For sure. For sure. so when did you realize, I mean, was that fairly on in your business where you're like, huh, am I I'm gonna focus more on this? because to be honest, we were talking about this before, that there's not a lot of photographers that do a lot of cat work. I think a lot of us have always said, yeah, of course we'll photograph cats, but it's always been like a random one off once in a blue moon.
where you've really like focused on marketing to that specific like niche of a niche of pet photography.
Dave (05:43)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (05:44)
kind of how did that come about and how do you like continue to grow this niche? Because it seems like let me back up for a second. With pet photography, like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when it first was getting on the scene, like you had to actually
Teach the market that it was available first. Like they had to learn that this was even a thing they could do. And there's still a lot of markets where that is still kind of where we're at. Like the first step before you can even market is to let people know, hey, this is a thing and I can help you with it. And cat photography is certainly still in that because so many people, when you even say I'm a dog photographer, they're like, I'm sorry, what? That's a job. So if you say
Dave (06:27)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (06:28)
I'm a cat photographer, I mean, even fewer people would be
of have known that that's even a thing. So kind of how do you approach growing this business, focusing on this when it's such a an a new, I guess a new and and emerging niche?
Dave (06:46)
Yeah, yeah. I primarily I think of myself as a photographer who specializes in cats, dogs and people. so I love working across all of them and I've recently started photographing horses. But to be honest, one of the first reasons why I added cats into my photography stream really early on when I started was because of the weather in Melbourne.
I know, you know, around the world people will always have to deal with surprising changing weather conditions. one thing in Melbourne is that we consistently complain about the weather more than anywhere else. and I really didn't want to be shut out of photographing outside when it was, you know, unexpectedly hot or wet. And cats just seem like a a natural thing. because you can obviously photograph them indoors. And there were quite a few, you know, interesting initial hurdles about that, like
How do translate a studio environment into an indoors environment? How do you photograph in a variety of different homes? And I'd say it was probably about 12 months into my business while I was photographing cats when I really bedded down some of the tools that I found worked really well for photographing cats. so I started photographing them really early on. The really, really big piece that came into place for me with photographing cats was when people got into the mix.
Nicole Begley (07:59)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Dave (08:01)
I've always loved you know, talking to people and learning about them. And I particularly love if people maybe aren't that comfortable in front of a lens, maybe have body confidence issues, or they just feel like they're a big weirdo for organizing a photo session with their pet. One of my favorite things is just kind of being there and helping them along that transition so that by the end of the process, they might still say, Well, that was a weird thing to organize, but I had a blast and I wouldn't change it. And
You know, as as somebody myself who, you know, isn't hasn't always been brimming with confidence. I I just love seeing people come along that journey. so cats for me really emerged in response to the weather thing. And then when I found out how meaningful it was for owners to join the photo sessions with them, it was a really special thing for them too. so I love that.
Nicole Begley (08:47)
I love that. So you're going to their homes and you're bringing studio lights. Are you bringing a studio backdrop too? Or are you photographing like like lifestyle in their home, but with some lights if you need it? What's what's that process look like?
Dave (09:02)
Mm. so depending on the stream of photography I'm doing, I kind of adapt my approach. So for my commercial clients, I'll photograph in studio that I'll rent as needed or sometimes on location. for dogs I photograph outside. I did very
Nicole Begley (09:16)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (09:17)
early days photograph some dogs inside, but very quickly found out how much more I love the photos and the experience outdoors. But cats, I come to their turf just because I find consistently and I have photographed cats in studio, that's fun.
I find pretty consistently that like when you're on a cat's, you know, in home environment, you just get the best results. They're their most comfortable.
Nicole Begley (09:36)
Yeah.
Dave (09:37)
and you can really produce the photos that I think are the strongest. So I'm coming to the owner's home with one, maybe two portable strobe lights. If it's a really big home, we might have a third setup, so three off camera flash. I bring a collapsible backdrop that I can use to get some black backdrop photos. you know, I I
Did in the past and will occasionally use a white backdrop or a wall, but if you want to give yourself nightmares, photograph with a white backdrop and color balance as you're moving around.
Nicole Begley (10:05)
Ha ha ha.
Dave (10:06)
my absolute favorite photos, and in the the book Tough Kitties that I've just done with at local cat rescue, my favorite photos are often the environmental ones.
Nicole Begley (10:15)
Yeah.
Dave (10:16)
I'll come set up with the backdrop and the studio lights, but then as the cat kind of gets used to me and sort of adjusts over the course of the session.
We have the opportunity to just let them be photographed around the house. And those photos take a whole lot longer to set up. there's less variety that you can get. So it's really helpful
Nicole Begley (10:33)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (10:34)
to have the backdrop photos alongside the environmental ones. But they result in photos like I've got a cat on a Roomba that I photographed, you know, while she was just chilling out of the house. there was a cat that was strolling across a piano, which is one of the photos in the book.
That is just I'm so proud of that photo. I can't tell you how much work went into setting it up.
Nicole Begley (10:52)
Ha ha.
Dave (10:54)
and sometimes they're just really deeply silly photographs. but the owners are there present for the entire process of that shot being captured and they see how much work has gone into it and they see just how comfortable their cat is during the process. so they love it. Yeah.
Nicole Begley (11:08)
Yeah. That's
fantastic. so yeah, so tell us a little bit about your tough kitties book.
Dave (11:14)
Yeah, so I am really proud of this. it's probably gonna get blurred out by my camera, but there it is. and if you're just listening to audio, yeah you
Nicole Begley (11:19)
No, I love it. Look great. I love
I love the cover image, by the way.
Dave (11:24)
yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so Tough Kiddies is Australia's first cat photography book. So photographed by me in partnership with Mineki Neko Cat Rescue, who quick
Nicole Begley (11:32)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (11:33)
sidebar are just this awesome team of cat rescue people. Even by animal rescue standards, they're just amazing. features twenty-six cats that I photographed in home around Melbourne, Australia. and we published it earlier this year. it's sold directly through Minecra Nico, so all the book proceeds go through to them. and we're just
really proud of it. You know, I looked far and wide to see if anybody else had actually done a cat photography book in Australia and I just turned up with donuts. This this is the first one because, as I'm frequently surprised to discover, people are shocked to hear that cat photo sessions sometimes run up to three hours in length.
Nicole Begley (12:06)
Yeah. I always like the to say they were kind of like newborn sessions. Like, you know,
Dave (12:11)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (12:11)
it could be twenty minutes, it could be three hours. Like you are on the cat's terms. And when I
Dave (12:17)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (12:18)
would would do, I really don't do mini cat sessions at all anymore. I don't really market them at all. But when I did, I would tell my clients and like, let's let's mark three hours down, but like it
Dave (12:30)
Mm-hmm.
Nicole Begley (12:31)
might take
Thirty minutes, it might take two hours, it might take three hours. We are on the cat's timeline.
Dave (12:37)
Yeah, totally. Actually you you touched on a really important component of it. Just communicating with the owner is just so important in a cat session. I I think
Nicole Begley (12:46)
Uh-huh.
Dave (12:47)
even more so than a dog one, just because it can go in so many different directions. And
Nicole Begley (12:51)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (12:52)
I find that chatting to the cat owner to let them know what I'm planning to do and that that might change if
Nicole Begley (12:58)
Uh-huh.
Dave (12:58)
the cat has a better idea, which you know, they often do.
Nicole Begley (13:01)
Yeah.
Dave (13:03)
letting owners know what's happening throughout that process.
really, really helps. with all of my photo sessions with cats now, I I do actually include a pre-shoot visit. there's an extra charge for that too. But I can go and scout out a park or a location for an outdoor dog shoot and I really want the same thing for a cat session. but the really important thing is actually meeting the owner. I'm
Nicole Begley (13:24)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (13:25)
also a man coming into you know people's homes and 99% of my clients are female and I think it's a really important component for them to kind of meet me and see
what I'm like before Photo Day.
Nicole Begley (13:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dave (13:36)
so being able to come over and see their home and chat to them is cool. But also, like I've said this before on another elevate call, I think the owner is just the single most important asset on cat photo day.
Nicole Begley (13:49)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (13:49)
because if that session does stretch out to three hours, like you say, you want to be chatting and engaging with your client the whole time. if the cat runs under a couch and the owner starts stressing out,
You want to be able to talk to the owner and reassure them, don't worry, we've got this covered. and if I really strongly think that if your dynamic with owners isn't good, if you don't like to deal with people very much, fortunately I do, it's gonna be a really torturous three hours with that cat. But
Nicole Begley (14:16)
Okay, I'm sure.
Dave (14:18)
I f I find if you can talk to them and engage through that and explain how the process works, they come out the i other side of that chute just loving it to bits.
Nicole Begley (14:26)
Yeah, no, that's fantastic. And you made a good point too that they really as as much as we produce better photos of people's dogs and pictures of them with their dogs, people getting good photos of them with their cats or their cats is even harder for them to get. So so you're really creating something that is next to impossible for them to get on their phone regularly, especially the two of them together.
So that's really really nice for them.
Dave (14:56)
Well, that's a fun experiment to try. Next time you're speaking to a pet owner, if they've got dogs or cats, ask them to bring up a couple of phones, up a couple of photos on their phone of their pet. They'll probably have 20,000 photos they took of that dog that morning, and some of them might be pretty good. But if they're a
Nicole Begley (15:10)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (15:11)
cat owner, I guarantee you they have four hundred thousand horrible, blurry, underexposed
Nicole Begley (15:17)
huh.
Dave (15:18)
photos. Like the photos of cats on people's phones look worse than like photos of receipts and where you parked your car.
Nicole Begley (15:24)
huh.
Dave (15:26)
and so I think when people see that distance between the photos they've grabbed and then the photos that you get with the studio lights set up, they're yeah, they're pretty shocked.
Nicole Begley (15:34)
Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk really quickly about the the revenue opportunity within cat photography.
Dave (15:41)
Mm.
Nicole Begley (15:43)
you know, how does it compare with your dog clients? you know, are are cat clients still spending money? What what are they usually purchasing? What does that usually look like?
Dave (15:53)
Mm. So I think broadly the ceiling for what someone will spend on a dog photography session is generally higher. You know, when you're outdoors, there's just so much more variety for
Nicole Begley (16:03)
Yeah.
Dave (16:05)
photos and things like that. With cats, I consistently find though that they have a really solid average for cat sessions, because the kind of entry point for someone to want to be photographed with their cat is is higher.
Nicole Begley (16:18)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (16:18)
people with me are generally purchasing wall art. occasionally for like a longer single session with a cat, they'll purchase wall art and albums. I find a lot of people really love the photo boxes as well. just
Nicole Begley (16:30)
Mm. Uh-huh.
Dave (16:31)
because while they might feel comfortable with having a photo session with their cat, they don't necessarily want like a shrine to their cat
Nicole Begley (16:38)
Yeah.
Dave (16:38)
set up in the home. And also a lot of our cat owners will
maybe have multiple cats and I don't want to have twenty
Nicole Begley (16:44)
Yeah.
Dave (16:45)
thousand photos on the wall of one cat and, you know, a postage stamp of their second cat.
Nicole Begley (16:50)
Do you
do you create images like a composite image of like the whole the whole crew together if they have like three or four cats?
Dave (16:58)
so I don't do plate shots. I don't do composites generally with multiple pets. Like one thing I found very, very early on. It's kind of one of the reasons why my business is called instinct, pet photography,
Nicole Begley (17:08)
Yeah.
Dave (17:08)
is I kind of like to do what comes naturally. And often I found I didn't want to produce photos that were beautifully lit of uncomfortable cats just staring into space crammed beside one another. and it's the same with dogs. I don't tend to do plate shots because I don't like to sort of
produce moments in that way. One thing I have started doing recently, and this has sort of leaned into it, if I is I have done these. They're so stupid, Nicole. I've got to show you one after this call. Like these composites where you just have the derpiest photo of one of their cats just super sized off to the side of the image. And then we'll have the owner with their second cat kind of staring off on the other side. It's all on a black backdrop. It's kind
Nicole Begley (17:46)
Yeah.
Dave (17:46)
of a reference to those really horrible
nineteen seventies photos when, you know, the like a father would be photographed super size and the family is just tiny beside him. Those I always found creepy, but yeah. I I've done those
Nicole Begley (17:58)
Hysterical.
Dave (18:01)
now for a couple of clients. You know, I did it for one just to make him laugh and it took off. And I've done that for a few people and they're deeply stupid, but people just love them. Because it it it has a bit of a silly vibe to it and it's something
Nicole Begley (18:12)
Yeah.
Dave (18:13)
some clients connect with.
Nicole Begley (18:15)
my gosh, that's amazing. And I think that's a great moral of the story of like just create the thing. If you have something, even if it's just for a laugh, like just do it. Who knows what what people will will connect with and want more of.
Dave (18:27)
Yeah. Well and also too, you know, when you're shooting at ISO one hundred on like a forty-five megapixel camera and you know a studio environment, you've got a lot of freedom to work around with those images afterwards. and why not make the most of what you have with some high resolution images. Also, too, I just think there is a factor of photographing cats with strobe light, you know, very crisp high shutter speed or high strobe speed photos
Nicole Begley (18:51)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (18:52)
of cats that can just
elevate the stupidest of moments and cats do stupid things.
Nicole Begley (18:58)
Yeah.
Dave (18:59)
and I love to kind of you know, have photos that capture really sweet, tender, gentle moments. But if you're a pet owner, you know that they can be really daft animals. And I'd love to bring that out too.
Nicole Begley (19:10)
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we've all, I think, created those images where the the owner's like, my gosh, she makes that face all the time. Yeah. Yeah.
Dave (19:18)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nicole Begley (19:20)
I love it. That's awesome. so yeah. So tell us just a little bit with the book that you did for that rescue, just can you like high level go over what that how how you positioned it, kind of what what the offer was, like.
how it was marketed, just like a high level overview of of that book project.
Dave (19:41)
Yeah, sure. so when I launched Tough Kitties with Moneki Nico, we knew that we were gonna have to have somewhere between 25 to 30 cats in it. so we initially launched it at an annual event in Melbourne, the cat and dog lovers show. People apply to be in the cat through my website. they fill out an initial form and then they get sort of follow-up qualified with a longer form.
It it's quite different to dogs because I can photograph dogs outdoors and parks, but the reality is some cats will be in home environments where they can't be photographed.
Nicole Begley (20:10)
Yeah, I was
gonna ask about that. Like, d have you gotten to the situation where you're like, This house I no. But I mean, I guess if you bring a backdrop, you can always do a backdrop little section.
Dave (20:20)
You can always do the backdrop, but not all cats are going to love Studio Light. So
Nicole Begley (20:24)
Yeah.
Dave (20:25)
the fast answer to that question is they kind of have to be screened a bit first. And there were people that we just couldn't accept for
Nicole Begley (20:30)
Yeah.
Dave (20:31)
this first book. We're now recruiting for the second volume. But the going through and kind of screening people for that process, once I kind of they share photos of their home environment as part of the application. So I can
Nicole Begley (20:42)
Hm.
Dave (20:42)
see here's the living space, here's those things.
And that's not because I'm trying to filter out only people who live in mansions. it's often because, you know, I'm trying to just get a sense of the space and what my options would be like there. and also we want to make sure that we have, you know, twenty five, thirty cats in the book who aren't all ragdolls or all chabbies
Nicole Begley (20:59)
Yeah, right.
Dave (21:00)
or, you know, have a bit of a combination. I mean like the cat on the cover was a very, very unique cat.
And so it's kind of cool to have like a real mix of breeds throughout the book. So people fill out the initial form, they follow up and fill out the long one. If they're accepted into that, I contact them personally and they get congratulated for being in the book and they pay a registration fee that goes half to the rescue, half to me, and then all books proceeds from the sale of the books go through to Maneki, the Cat Rescue.
Nicole Begley (21:27)
Okay, gotcha. And then
you're you're selling prints, albums, folio boxes, whatever to the models for for you to to make some some money on the sessions?
Dave (21:37)
Yeah, and look, this first book was very profitable. Like it did very well. It definitely exceeded our expectations.
Nicole Begley (21:44)
so
Dave (21:44)
One one thing that I think was a smart call for this book as well, and it was done because I had some targets that I personally wanted to hit for the cat rescue to show them, hey, this project's actually gonna work, which yeah, success. five percent of the art sales go through to the cat rescue team as well. Which is good vibes
Nicole Begley (22:00)
Okay. Yeah.
Dave (22:02)
for them, but it definitely shifts.
people's thinking I think when they're ordering artwork, because it's no longer just a thing for them. It's one more thing contributing to the rescue. Even if it's five percent, it yeah, changes how they think.
Nicole Begley (22:09)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
no, people I think I I've always been a huge believer in having charitable components where you can because I think it just I mean, why not? You get to give back, you get to help another another, you know, cause you believe in. The your clients are also connected to that cause. Like, you know, it it cements you as as somebody that they, you know, share values with. It's I I don't yeah. I there's
Dave (22:36)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (22:37)
It's a win win.
Dave (22:38)
and one of the things about it, like something I love about pet pet photography, even speaking to veterans like you who've done it for, you know, so long, especially with veterans like you, is that like the rules kind of seem to change quite a bit. And
Nicole Begley (22:50)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (22:51)
it's not a thing that people are organizing and booking for themselves on a regular basis. So
Nicole Begley (22:54)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (22:55)
like pet photography to your your average person can involve almost anything. And I love that when I first got into it, like you could kind of kind of break some rules because the rules
Just don't exist. and people often said, Well, no one's gonna pay for artwork. That's wrong. And a lot of people said, I who wants their cat photographed? But man, Nicole, I can tell you the people who come in for cat photo sessions, especially with tough kitties, they've been just such a different type of client. Like a lot of vet nurses, a lot of school teachers, a lot of people involved in care roles. And
Nicole Begley (23:28)
Hmm. Interesting.
Dave (23:30)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it it was
Definitely a pronounced trend for this book. They're people who have spent a lot of time caring and looking out for other people. And they're cats, you know, as sort of an emotional support vehicle for them that
Nicole Begley (23:44)
Yeah.
Dave (23:44)
they spend a lot of time loving. And the cat photo sessions have been a kind of opportunity for them to kind of celebrate this, you know, this animal in their life that
Nicole Begley (23:51)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (23:52)
has probably been a bit of a flotation raft for them.
Nicole Begley (23:55)
Yeah.
Dave (23:57)
and one of the things with the book that I wanted to celebrate is.
why it's called Tough Kiddies, is is just celebrating just the resilience of that. You know, people kind of joke and
Nicole Begley (24:03)
Yeah. No, that's
Dave (24:05)
laugh.
Nicole Begley (24:06)
that's fantastic. And they I I think I mean, I think it's legit studies that like the the cats and the purring is like major emotional regulation. Like the the frequency
Dave (24:17)
yeah.
Nicole Begley (24:17)
of purring can like help heal bones faster or something crazy. I think bees are the same way. Like the the frequency of the sound that honey bees make does something amazing. But yeah, no, I
Dave (24:27)
wow.
Nicole Begley (24:28)
I think cats have the special superpower.
for the people that take the time to get to know a cat. but it's really interesting what the care the care component that those types of people in those roles tend to have cats at home, you know, to help support them. I love that.
Dave (24:44)
Yeah.
Yeah. It's it's often one component of a caring life. And I've definitely found a lot of cat owners tend to be like actively engulf engaged in care roles. That's fascinating about the bees, by the way. Maybe, you know,
Nicole Begley (24:56)
Yeah.
Dave (24:57)
in a couple of years I'll be Melbourne's preeminent cat and bee photographer.
Nicole Begley (25:01)
I would love it. Bees are so
cool. The my gosh, we had at one zoo, I forget which one it was. but and they had like the the beehive and then the glass and you can like see them like come in and do their make all their little you know, their whole little bee village.
Dave (25:19)
Mm-hmm.
Nicole Begley (25:20)
But you start to dig into I I'm just, you know, I'm a total nerd.
You start to dig into like so many of these different animals, social structures and and all of the things and it's just it's all fascinating. So
Dave (25:31)
gosh, can
we just talk about bees for seven hours? I'm pretty sure that they're the only insect that Yeah. Yeah, the the puns write themselves.
Nicole Begley (25:33)
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna say so your next book has to be like, you know, save the bees.
Yeah, exactly. I love it. Awesome. So you guys are gonna do another book. that's fantastic. Again, say cats again, you said.
Dave (25:51)
Yeah, so Tough Kitties book two. we're currently
Nicole Begley (25:52)
Okay.
Dave (25:53)
recruiting as a bit of a slow, soft launch.
Nicole Begley (25:56)
Yeah.
Dave (25:57)
but yeah, so first volume was a success. we immediately started for the second volume and maybe 20% of the way through the photo sessions for that.
Nicole Begley (26:06)
Okay.
Dave (26:07)
it's just a matter of sort of balancing the shoots for those alongside my dog clients as well. Because we've just gotten into spring in Melbourne and
Nicole Begley (26:14)
Okay.
Dave (26:15)
I love cats, but it's hard to kind of squander that.
Beautiful weather, being cooked up indoors.
Nicole Begley (26:20)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And we get spring here, it just be we get a ton of flowers. So like spring's a great time to shoot. Cause our summer gets way too hot. it's just disgusting. Yeah.
Dave (26:32)
Yeah. Actually th that's
one note about cat photo sessions. one really nice thing about them is they don't have to be spr sunrise or sunset sessions. And and and actually
Nicole Begley (26:40)
Yeah. It's actually probably
better middle of the day, you have more light.
Dave (26:44)
A hundred percent. Well, I I also find kind of behavior wise, because of cat prey drives, going haywire
Nicole Begley (26:49)
Mm.
Dave (26:50)
at the start and end of the day, you really want to be photographing kind of at a comfortable late morning or early afternoon time.
Nicole Begley (26:56)
Yeah.
Dave (26:57)
which is really, really nice if you're a photographer who doesn't like sunrise or sunset sessions. I do,
Nicole Begley (27:02)
Yeah, uh-huh.
Dave (27:03)
but I'll typically start my sessions for cats around like eleven, twelve o'clock. well, it also helps
Nicole Begley (27:07)
That's fantastic. Because yeah, depending
on what time sunrise and sunset is, I mean it it becomes really challenging sometimes.
Dave (27:17)
Yeah, yeah. Well and especially too when people are involved in the photos,
Nicole Begley (27:20)
Mm.
Dave (27:21)
they're just a bit more relaxed and ready for it. You
Nicole Begley (27:23)
Yeah.
Dave (27:23)
know, I this is totally unproven, but I do have a bit of a gut feeling that sometimes with an afternoon session, if people are going to be in the photos and they're not used to being photographed, they can maybe spend the day stressing about it and thinking about it and getting a bit too kind
Nicole Begley (27:36)
Mm.
Dave (27:36)
of whereas eleven AM, you know, you've had a chance to wake up, have your coffee, settle into your morning and just feel kind of good without waiting all day for the photography to happen.
Nicole Begley (27:44)
Yeah. No, that's
a great point. And most of I would say ninety nine percent of the people we photograph are going to be stressing about it all day because they are not used to being photographed. Cause even we as photographers, like when we're being photographed, just like, my god, this is different.
Dave (27:59)
yeah, yeah, yeah. My eyes are constantly closed when I'm being photographed. Like I I I don't
know what to wear here, exactly.
Nicole Begley (28:06)
I love it. All right. Well this has been really good. But before we wrap up, I would love just to have like maybe some top three tips from you for working with cats, whether, you know, besides the the general, like, you know, they're not really into sounds, more like, you know, have the the long string and more into sight and, you know, to get their attention. But like what are some
Some surprising tips or some just some like must know tips that you would have for other pet photographers that maybe want to photograph some more cats.
Dave (28:40)
Yeah, yeah. my number one tip is make use of the owner. They are gonna know the most about the cat. they're gonna be familiar with on photo day, things that might make the cat uncomfortable and all that, but more than anything, having the owner present will mean that you can stimulate some reactions that you could never do on your own. so have that good vibe with the owner and really use them as your photography assistant throughout the session, start to finish.
Second thing I'd say pre-shoot visits and a really good session guide are very, very
Nicole Begley (29:09)
Mm.
Dave (29:09)
good to kind of prepare and think about the photo session ahead of time. Like I mentioned earlier on that cat photography is a bit of a casserole of loads of different photography styles, including real estate photography, which I
Nicole Begley (29:21)
Yeah.
Dave (29:22)
I did in the past. and the component of that is thinking about the space and maybe doing a little bit of set dressing.
and I I mean that literally, like as photographers, sometimes some of us may not like to ask to move something around in a client's home, but if it gets a better end result, definitely do
Nicole Begley (29:38)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (29:39)
that. So if there's junk on the couch and the cat's gonna hang out there, you know, a cushion or two, move that stuff. if you need a
Nicole Begley (29:44)
Mm-hmm.
Dave (29:45)
clearer table, move that and kind of be the respected authority there to say, hey, I think this table will look even better if we can move this stuff in case the cat uses it.
Nicole Begley (29:53)
Mm-hmm.
And people are usually very applicable to doing that. Like I've found, I know when I started, I was so nervous to ask anyone to do anything. But then you start to like realize you're like, like I'm the professional here. So
Dave (30:07)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (30:07)
and and they don't know any better. And they're usually, you know, if you're like, okay, we're gonna put let's put the dog on a leash. Let's do this, let's do that. They're like, okay. So yeah, that's a that's a
Dave (30:17)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (30:17)
great one.
Dave (30:18)
Yeah. And it just quick capra on that one. If you're ever uncertain about whether you want to ask a a client about this to move all those things, don't do it for a couple of sessions and then spend forty-eight hours in photo editing. Come back
Nicole Begley (30:30)
huh.
Dave (30:30)
afterwards. I promise you'll change your mind.
Nicole Begley (30:32)
huh, yeah, exactly.
Dave (30:34)
and probably sort of third and final step, have just an arsenal of cat toys. I come with a bag that it's actually got cats on it. Everybody loves it.
It's the toy bag that I have, but just like try a variety of cheap toys, try making your own toys. I've got different ones that I've made from just small things. And if they're kind of cheap, if you lose them or they break or whatever, they're easy to replace.
Nicole Begley (30:58)
Yeah.
Dave (30:59)
but tools that work with one cat will not work with 50 others and vice versa. So just have a MacGyver arsenal of different things that you can use to get a cat's attention. because it's never going to be the same twice from session to session.
Nicole Begley (31:11)
Yeah.
Yeah. I love it. Awesome. Well, this was so helpful. Thank you for sharing everything with us. Really appreciate it. best of luck in your
Dave (31:20)
Thank you.
Nicole Begley (31:20)
next book. Before you go though, can you let people know where they can find out more about Tough Kitties version one if they want to check it out.
Dave (31:29)
Heck yeah. so you can find that out on my website, Instinct Pet Photography. my name's Dave Mays. You can search there, or check out my Instagram, Instinct Pet Photo. You'll see promos for Tough Kitties there and links to go and purchase the book from the Cat Rescue.
Nicole Begley (31:41)
Yeah, I love it. And all the proceeds benefit the rescue. It's just amazing. And they're they're lucky to have you. So good.
Dave (31:47)
huge
shout out to them, Jade and Samantha from the Neki Nico, Cat Rescue in Melbourne. They are just like awesome people. So they're not here, but high five, high five.
Nicole Begley (31:55)
High pause. I love it.
Dave (31:56)
Yeah.
Nicole Begley (31:57)
Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here with us. You guys go out, reach out to Dave, let him know you enjoyed this conversation, and we'll see you guys next week.
Dave (32:04)
Thanks, Nicole.
