Nicole Begley (00:00)
Have you ever wondered how photographers land $8,000 sales? Well, you're about to find out. Stay tuned.

Nicole Begley (00:07)
I'm Nicole Begley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six-figure business by 2012. Since then, my mission has been to empower photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2,000 $3,000 sales is your fastest route to six-figure businesses.

that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four figure sales. And no matter if you want photography to be your full-time passion or a part-time pursuit, profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with the life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350,000 downloads, welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast.

Nicole Begley (01:07)
Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Begley. Now, I know you've heard that $8,000 are possible, but today you're going to hear exactly what goes into them. Three Elevate members are walking us through their recent sales, where the clients came from, what products they bought, and how the process unfolded from start to finish. Today, I'm turning the mic over to my friend, Heather Laudanen, who runs our Elevate program so she can dive deep in with these three photographers that all had $8,000 sales.

In the same week. Well, that's a great week.

If you enjoy this conversation and you want to join us inside of elevate, you can find more details at www.freedomfocusformula.com slash elevate And use the code podcast to save the $200 enrollment fee. We hope to see you on the inside.

Speaker 1 (01:54)
Thank you so much for being here today on the podcast. I'd like for each of you to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do and how you got started in photography. So Marcy, what's up?

Speaker 2 (02:08)
All well, Marcy Frye and I live in central Florida. I've been a photographer charging people for about 18 or 19 years. I got into photography because my girlfriends at the time saw the photos I was taking of my own kids and they're like, oh, well, you do it for me. I'll pay you. I'll pay you. And I'm like, I didn't want to take their money. So I charged them $25. And, you know, from there, it just grew. For the first

I've lived in three different states, so I've had to recreate my business three different times, so it can be done. ⁓ I started with high school seniors and families. I've done real estate photography, and then I niched down to dogs about five years ago. I don't know how I did it, but I made about 20 to $30,000 every year for the first however many years. And then when I discovered Nicole and Heather, my sales increased to 50,000 and then went to 70.

I'm a believer.

Speaker 1 (03:05)
So the systems work. Did you have a job before photography?

Speaker 2 (03:10)
I was a stay at home mom and then before that I was a liability claims adjuster. handled litigated claims.

Speaker 1 (03:15)
That's

right. We've talked about that. Well, do you happen to remember your first sale in photography? Like how much?

Speaker 2 (03:21)
It

was $25 and I had to force, you know, I mean, they had to force money on me. Like I can't, people, oh, I'm not good enough. No, I can't charge for this. This is too fun. I like doing it. I'll just do it for you. Oh, right. doesn't cost me anything.

Speaker 1 (03:35)
Right, right. So I'll just do it for free. I would do it for free. Well, then how did you switch to or I'm sure it was an evolution, but getting from that to no, this is my time. I should start

Speaker 2 (03:46)
I

got really, really irritated with how much time I was spending and going like, I lived in a nice neighborhood and the people I was photographing were living in nice houses and made lots of money. And I'm like, I'm killing myself for your family with these gorgeous images for $50, like spending hours and hours. I mean, I even knew that was not a good use of my time. Right. I got mad at myself. I did too.

Speaker 1 (04:10)
Right?

That's so funny.

Speaker 2 (04:13)
Years

I did high school seniors where I lived in a market where you high school seniors had to have photos taken. Every state is not like that. ⁓ I only photoed maybe 15 seniors and I was making $30,000. I worked one month out of the year and made that. That should have been a clue like, if you try and do other stuff, you might make more money because I didn't charge that much. You know, I mean, it's like maybe 1500 bucks a session and they got an album and all the digital and wall. I mean, they got so much stuff. I wasn't priced right, but I still

Speaker 1 (04:27)
Which is amazing.

Speaker 2 (04:43)
That's what came in.

Speaker 1 (04:45)
Right. So you were still doing well. OK, great. Thank you. Katie, tell us how you got started.

Speaker 3 (04:51)
So I got started like a lot of moms starting to take pictures of your own kids. ⁓ then people noticed and asked me to take pictures of their family. actually the first job I had, someone from church asked me if I could do ⁓ headshots for her husband's dental practice. And I did not know what I was doing at all.

Speaker 1 (05:14)
Have fun!

Speaker 3 (05:19)
it was looking back, you know, you've to look back at these old photos sometimes just to see how far you've come. So, ⁓ but in the beginning, I was photographing mostly families and ⁓ and I'm doing pets and families right now. So that's kind of what I like the best and trying to get away from headshots ⁓ because it doesn't fill me up like the pets and families do.

Speaker 1 (05:44)
Do you remember your first sale?

Speaker 3 (05:46)
Well, that ⁓ dentist practiced, I charged him $100. ⁓

Speaker 1 (05:51)
Wow,

good for you.

Speaker 3 (05:54)
⁓ Marcy thinks that's a lot.

Speaker 1 (05:57)
It was for your first for your first session. I was like 50.

Speaker 3 (06:02)
I was like, wasn't sure if that expression meant like, wow, you were killing it or like, that's embarrassing. don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:07)
Now it means it was a lot. was like hers was twenty

Speaker 2 (06:11)
Yeah, you rich.

Speaker 1 (06:13)
That's what I was thinking, you're rich.

Speaker 3 (06:15)
And I remember I showed up and I was looking, I hadn't been to the practice before. I didn't have a studio. I was doing it in the office and I was, I didn't have flash. didn't know anything. I was going to use the window light and yeah, it was, it was something.

Speaker 1 (06:30)
How many years ago was that?

Speaker 3 (06:32)
It was, it'll be 10 years in November. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:35)
All right.

Very good. Thank you. Jess, tell us how you got started.

Speaker 4 (06:42)
have you to blame because you saw a photo of my dog Hunter on Instagram that was sepia toned not really in focus like not good and you said he is so handsome you should be a pet photographer and I said okay and I think it was like six months later I booked mentoring with you and here we are it will be nine years next Monday I'm so excited

Speaker 1 (07:04)
my

gosh, congratulations. That's so funny because we met and for everyone listening, Jess is actually local to me and she came to a camera club. She had that photo of Hunter and I mean, that's exactly what I thought. That's a handsome boy. You should be a pet photographer. And then her response, I will just never get over. It seems so simple, but I want you to think about what you had to believe when you just said, okay.

Speaker 4 (07:32)
think it was that someone else believed in me, so like if you saw it then I could learn to see it in myself. Because I knew that photo wasn't good, I just thought he was cute. I'm like, someone else sees something in me that I don't see yet and why not try?

Speaker 1 (07:47)
Why not try? What was your first session price wise?

Speaker 4 (07:51)
I did, it was $150. Now don't get excited because I started in September. Through the end of that year, I netted $235. I had three clients. I had a dog and two potbelly pigs and it was not good.

Speaker 1 (08:10)
But you have to start somewhere. Okay. all of you now you're here because just last week, sorry, it was two weeks ago now, each of you had over an $8,000 sale. was just remarkable to me that the numbers were so close and within the same week I had talked to all of you, I think I felt like it was a sign that we needed to discuss how you went from $25 to 8,000.

and what the evolution of that looked like. So it doesn't matter, whoever wants to talk first about an 8,000, well, everybody's curious. What is the anatomy of an $8,000 sale? So Katie, what was included in your 8,000, okay, two part question. What was included in that sale just from a service and product standpoint? And how did this person find you?

Speaker 3 (09:05)
Okay, so I found this person because I was, I had met this girl who contacted me. She worked for a veterinarian's office and she was the manager of this practice and was, she was putting together a client appreciation party. And so sometimes I get these phone calls. People are looking for a pet photographer to come and take pictures on site and do like minis at their event.

And for me personally, that's a big no because I don't like mini sessions. I've tried them. don't like that whole format is just not what I offer. doesn't represent what I do. And I really like to have time with my clients. So, so I I told her, I said, I'm not willing to do mini sessions at your event, but I'd be happy to show up and offer a giveaway.

And ⁓ like, maybe that'll be fun for your clients to win a giveaway. And so she was totally on board. She was like, all right, cool. Thanks for like offering something. ⁓ So I showed up and she let me have a little table so I could display my work as well, which was really nice. And I did a giveaway and that person won a pet portrait session. And then she called me and said, my daughter's so jealous that I won.

⁓ I want to buy her a session too. And so that was great because I did the giveaway and I sold a session for her daughter. And then, and it was a, you know, it was a great sale. were wonderful, fun clients, love, love working with them. And then later on she mentioned that she'd like me to come back and do her family next year. So that, that, that was last year that I did the dogs. And then this summer ⁓ we planned for her other daughter, a family session.

⁓ And she already knew what my system was like and everything because she'd experienced it. So she already knew she had done an album for her first session. And I asked her, are you thinking you want to do an album for her or are you thinking you want to do wall art? And she said, I want to do wall art. So the tricky thing about gifted sessions, though, is being clear on what the gift really is, what's included.

And I wanted to be super, super clear on that from the get go because it's, I've gotten into some sticky situations with this multiple adult gifting situation. So what I ended up doing was I met with the daughter on zoom and we, we did, cause she was out of town. We looked at her walls and we designed something together on zoom. And, ⁓ and then I went back to her, her mom and I told her what the

quote was, I was like, I want to make sure that we're all on board before we even shoot that this is the gift. And she said, great, let's go for it. So, so her, her sale was mostly wall art and then ⁓ some unadded few, few prints as well as gift prints.

Speaker 1 (12:13)
are your thoughts around a free gifted client then spending $8,000 on a gift to her daughter? What do you think about that?

Speaker 3 (12:26)
Okay, well, first of all, my cell wasn't exactly 8,000, so I want to be fair. What was it? Closer to seven. So anyway, I just want to be totally transparent on that matter. But anyway, my thoughts are that is amazing and I love it.

Speaker 1 (12:46)
What else is there to say? But what are your thoughts about your packages and your work?

Speaker 3 (12:55)
I, I think that having the wall art done for you and, know, and I design the walls, I do the framing and everything for you. I think it's wonderful, a wonderful way to serve the clients who value that kind of level of service. ⁓ I don't want my clients to have to figure all that out and be like standing on their couch measuring and, you know, figure out how they could possibly crop this and

you when I do everything for you, maybe I need to expand the background for that shape and I can do that. You know what mean? Just little things like that that they wouldn't think of or know how to do. I just want to be able to serve them at a high level. And so you have to charge to do that. And that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:36)
So you

it's a service and you believe in the value of that service like wholeheartedly, clearly. Is was this your highest sale? What is your highest sale?

Speaker 3 (13:43)
Yes. Yes.

now.

My highest sale was about $23,000.

Speaker 1 (13:57)
Wait, wait, what? Now that you say that, I do remember we had this conversation, but I'm sure people listening are like, are you kidding me? What was in that sale?

Speaker 3 (14:12)
⁓ that sale was lots of wall art. was, ⁓ like a four piece wall grouping in one room and then two, three piece wall groupings in another room. And then a big statement over the fireplace and an album with some extra upgrades.

Speaker 1 (14:35)
And what were your thoughts about that sale?

Speaker 3 (14:38)
I had a lot of, thoughts. ⁓ I mean, my heart was definitely racing at the time and I, ⁓ because that's a big number, but I also, ⁓ kept my mouth shut and let the client decide if she wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 (15:01)
you manage your mind very well in that situation because our brain, tendency might be to either over explain or offer a discount or something. And the best move is to just zip it and allow the client to process the number and the value and just let them decide.

Speaker 3 (15:23)
Right. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:25)
And she did. Okay, what is your average sale?

Speaker 3 (15:29)
So my average sale right now, if you include ⁓ like my little promotion sessions, like my calendar and stuff like that, if you include it like that, then my average sale is around 1800 right now.

Speaker 1 (15:43)
And what are your thoughts on that? What would you like that to be?

Speaker 3 (15:47)
I would like it to be more like 3000.

Speaker 1 (15:50)
Okay. We're getting there. Right. But you also have these occasional $7,000 and $23,000 sales. Right. But I mean, you'll take it, right? Who cares? Like if you're bringing in a $7,000 sale and even at 23, once you do it once and you know you can do it, you can absolutely do it again.

Speaker 3 (16:00)
So.

Yes.

Speaker 1 (16:18)
Right.

OK, great. want to I have more questions, but I want to I would like to talk to everyone else about their 8K sale. Jess, what is the anatomy of an 8K sale and how did they find you?

Speaker 4 (16:32)
This was an interesting one because we always talk about buy cycles and so many people come in thinking that when a client reaches out, they're gonna book you right then or they're never gonna book you. This particular client I met at a free Pet Photo with Santa event eight years ago. She came to every single event year after year. I knew her first dog who was passed. She has two new ones. And after seeing her this year, she said, I'm book with you. And she ended up booking. ⁓

paid a 195 session fee, spent 8,645, and that included two 16 by 20 frame prints, a 20 by 30 frame print, a 20 image folio box, and two five by seven gift prints.

Speaker 1 (17:17)
And what are your thoughts on that sale when she's in your you have a studio.

Speaker 4 (17:23)
I have a portrait suite. don't call it a studio because I don't shoot studio. I shoot all outdoors. I was thrilled with this sale. It was a 7 % cost of goods, which is super fabulous. She came in valuing artwork knowing that she wanted to capture her new dogs because she never had the opportunity to do that with her first dog. And so that was really important. And she just kept adding on and I'm just like, bring it on. Like, this is amazing.

felt like she got such good value because I know how much these images mean to her.

Speaker 1 (17:56)
That's key is you believed in the value for the client. When you do that, when you believe in that value and you're sitting with a person and you're just saying, what is your phrase? You say what else or what next? How do you phrase that when they're I feel like you have a way of saying that when they so they they're adding things and instead of saying, is there anything else you would like? Because that's a yes, no. I think is how you say it. You say like, what else or anything? No. How do you say it?

Speaker 4 (18:26)
never want to ask a yes no because it just it can stop the sale so as we are typically I know going in what we're what we're building for and then there's always some images that are left over what else would you like to do with these and so now they're like ⁓ well maybe you know grandma needs a couple maybe I do need a couple for the office maybe my husband needs one for the man cave and until they tell me like I'm done I'm gonna just keep presenting options because that's all I'm doing is giving them ways to enjoy these images

Speaker 1 (18:53)
Right. So it's pretty straightforward. just you're just inviting them to value the images at whatever level they would like to do. So it's just open.

Speaker 4 (19:04)
Yeah, there's nothing salesy. Everything is like, it's just an invitation because they're excited to get their images. I'm excited to get some money. We're both going to win. There's nobody that's going to lose in this situation.

Speaker 1 (19:15)
Everybody wins. Is this your highest sale? What was your highest sale?

Speaker 4 (19:20)
No, my very highest sale was $13,276 and then I had a 10k, $10,217. So this is like third highest.

Speaker 1 (19:31)
And what's your average?

Speaker 4 (19:33)
This year it's $45.20.

Speaker 1 (19:35)
And what are your thoughts about that?

Speaker 4 (19:37)
I'm good with that. I mean, I always want it to go up, of course, but I'm comfortable where it's at. It feels good.

Speaker 1 (19:43)
How long have you been a six figure photographer?

Speaker 4 (19:47)
Um, I have had six figure sales since 2022, which ironically was the first year I had a 10k sale.

Speaker 1 (19:56)
⁓ interesting. What do you attribute that to?

Speaker 4 (19:59)
I actually track this. So every year I track my income and growth and I make little notes about the big things I was changing or doing or implementing. And my sales jumped when I actually started investing in education.

Speaker 1 (20:12)
Okay, okay, that's the best answer I could ever hear. Tell us more what that looks like.

Speaker 4 (20:21)
lots of one-on-one education. But my big one was I started with Nicole in Hair of the Dog back when that was my main pet photography education platform. And then you launched Elevate ⁓ in 2020, right before the pandemic. And I've never left since because I love the accountability. I love learning from other niches and what people are doing, what's working for them, what I can take and tweak. ⁓ Just having people to like celebrate with who get it because

I understand, like you hear these numbers and you're like, that's good for them, this is insane, it's never gonna happen, but then you surround yourself with people who are doing it or doing more than you want and it just feels like so good. Like I couldn't imagine being without that because most people aren't gonna get this.

Speaker 1 (21:05)
Right. And so what you've done is created this proximity, the proximity to the resources and the accountability. And you've never left. There are several people actually that joined Elevate in 2020 when we launched it that have stayed forever. And I love that because they're making the money to pay for Elevate. So then I always say it's basically free. And then everything else is bonus. And you continue to make more and learn more.

And so why would you ever leave if you're making money and you're still in photography? I did a series, a couple, well, maybe was it last year? It doesn't matter on the habits of six-figure photographers. And I was referencing you in one of those videos about the investments in education. And is it any surprise then that you got to six figures pretty quickly? And now I would classify you as a multi six-figure entrepreneur. ⁓ I should ask this. This is good for everyone. But since you're here,

Did you have any experience as an entrepreneur? Did you set out to be a business owner?

Speaker 4 (22:11)
No, I was always self-employed, is a blessing and a curse, but ⁓ photography especially, no. I enjoyed photographing and playing around and that was about it. ⁓ Funny enough though, I love the business more than I love photographing. Like I consider myself an entrepreneur more than I do an artist or a photographer.

Speaker 1 (22:30)
Yeah, same. What did you do before photography?

Speaker 4 (22:33)
I spent 24 years coaching figure skating.

Speaker 1 (22:37)
And you were a figure skater yourself with many accolades. Yes. Yes. Yeah. What was your biggest award?

Speaker 4 (22:39)
For 31 years, yep.

⁓ I am a six-time U.S. Figure Skating gold medalist and a Canadian Ice Dance gold medalist. Sounds like I've gone to the Olympics. I have not. It is basically achieving the highest level you can achieve in these certain disciplines.

Speaker 1 (23:00)
Wow. That is so impressive to me. I remember when you told me that I was like, wait, what? I'm obsessed with figure skating. And that's what you. my gosh. That is so amazing. So you're just you're just a champion. You consider you're just a winner. You have the self concept is like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to figure it out.

Speaker 4 (23:19)
There's no other option because if I don't figure it out, then I can't do it. And I love it so much that there's just no other choice. I have to get it correct. I got to do it on my own and make it work.

Speaker 1 (23:29)
Is there a parallel between disappointment in business or facing rejection in business and landing on the ice over and over and over again? Like when you would fail at a jump and you would land on the ice, you had to be completely prepared to experience pain over and over and over again before you nailed that jump. And then you become a photographer and you experience failure or perceived rejection and you have to be

willing to feel that pain. one's physical, although that physical pain is also emotional, but the rejection in the business is emotional. Did that serve you or how did that serve you?

Speaker 4 (24:10)
Yeah, skating, not just physical pain, I would say even more so mental toughness, like perseverance. I always said I might not be the best, but I'm gonna outlast everybody else. And it has given me a very thick skin. Like the stuff I have heard is all subjective. It's someone's opinion and it can come through the same way in photography. One person's gonna love an image that I don't like, they might not be happy with this, they have a different preference, it's fine. It has nothing to do with me. It's just someone's opinion.

Speaker 1 (24:39)
And you are able to separate that and not take it personally. Is that because of skating?

Speaker 4 (24:45)
yeah, like I've had people not rate me high or pass a test on me because they didn't like the way I looked, but they couldn't tell me what they wanted me to look like. And it's like, this is not helpful, but okay, like that's what you got to say. And I'll just go back and do it again.

Speaker 1 (24:59)
So I think the key here is that when you hear something outside of yourself, an opinion or a judgment, you just basically do not receive it.

Speaker 4 (25:07)
I just don't care. Like you can have your thoughts. I'm going to go over here and make my money.

Speaker 1 (25:12)
and make my money and I will be laughing all the way to the bank for sure. Okay, that's great. Thank you. I miss this. Katie, what did you do before photography?

Speaker 4 (25:16)
Yep.

Speaker 3 (25:24)
Before photography, I was a nurse.

Speaker 1 (25:27)
and what

led you to photography.

Speaker 3 (25:30)
Well, after my son was born and I had always thought I would work part time. That was what I envisioned was I was going to have kids and I was just going to work part time. And then I realized I did not want to leave him. And so I stayed home for the most part. was when, let's see, I guess it was 2015 when I,

opened my business. So I guess he was about four at the time. And ⁓ I was starting to feel like I really wanted to do something for myself. And ⁓ that did not involve ⁓ someone else dictating my schedule.

Speaker 1 (26:19)
Yes, your time. would you say, take me back? you, did you set, like, did you go into this with, want to be a photographer, photography's fun, or did you go into it with like, I want to start a business?

Speaker 3 (26:34)
⁓ I went into it with, ⁓ this is fun, wouldn't it be cool if people wanted to pay me to do this?

Speaker 1 (26:42)
yeah, same. Yeah, that was mine too.

Speaker 3 (26:45)
wow. Look, here's someone offering. ⁓

Speaker 1 (26:48)
I always say I was an accidental entrepreneur. just picked up a camera and I loved photography. And then this business component popped up and I was like, they will pay me. Turns out I love business. I didn't know anything about it. I don't know. Did you? Did I mean, did you have any background with business?

Speaker 3 (27:05)
No, and in fact, ⁓ I definitely hated sales. ⁓ I remember I had a job at a hotel one summer at the front desk and one of my jobs was to make reservations. And I remember my boss saying he had this sheet that was like, here's all the different ways people can get a discount like AAA or if they work for this company or this or that. He's like, but never offer them that unless they ask.

And I really didn't like that. And I was like, I hate sales. And I think I've come a long way. I don't think I love sales as much as Jess loves sales, but my goal is to love them as much as Jess.

Speaker 1 (27:49)
Yes, I love them as well. Okay, perfect. Marcy, the anatomy of an $8,000 sale and how did they find you?

Speaker 2 (28:00)
So my sale was about $8,500 and.

I play tennis in the place where I play tennis had a thing called a spring fling. It was a week long tennis tournament and they had a bunch of different vendors come in and I'm like, you what the heck? I play tennis. I see these people. It's people from all over our community, not just where I play tennis. So I set up my little booth and did all my normal things that none of them worked. I had a horrible location that they just, think were, she belongs here. She will give her a tent in the corner or a spot in the corner. And I had no traffic whatsoever.

couple people caught wind of what I was doing and one of the ladies that plays on a different team than I play and says, Oh, you know, do you do fan because I advertise it as dogs. Do you do families too? And she has a dog and I'm like, yes, yes, I've done families, of course. She's like, Oh, you know, I want to get my whole family together, you know, and we want to do it at the beach. And I'm like, and that's fine for me, but it's a 45 minute one way drive. So I always think about like up charges for time and whatever.

But anyway, she said she was interested and I'm like, okay, you know, get me your number. And I said, you care if I reach out to you? Because she wanted it around 4th of July and I wasn't sure I was gonna be in town. And so I wanted to, you know, make sure that we were on the same page and not do my trip if, you know, whatever. So anyway, I just kept after her and I said, you know, if you don't want me to keep after you, let me know. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just, it was a family shoot and she was, she has adult children in their thirties, twenties and thirties. And she's trying to coordinate.

and it's a mixed family, so she's trying to coordinate a lot of people's schedules. So we finally got down to a date and I told her, said, you know, I'll do the honor system with you kind said, I'm expecting, you know, that you, you're doing all this because you want to order prints. So I'm not going to upcharge you. I charged my sitting fee, which is 249, I said, but I'm not going to upcharge you to drive back and forth to the beach kind of on a handshake. And I know you and I talked about it because I was nervous after I did it I'm like, my God, she's not going to get anything of what, you know, cause anyway.

Got there, family was great. was actually probably the most fun photo shoot I've ever done because everybody wanted their photos taken. And we did, I mean, I think I took 1,500 photos, which is a lot for me for a family session. But it was five different families and all the combinations and candid and run out of water and by the sea oats and blah, blah. Anyway, we did it all. I'm like, okay, they're great. Everybody loved the photos. I told her, said, I'm only gonna talk to one person though on this order.

So you got to coordinate it. I will answer people's questions and I'll show them stuff. So she had decided, I took samples after the shoot. So all the kids, they live in different states, could all see like, this is what you do. Do like metal? Do you like a gallery wrap? Do you like acrylic here? Or I do farmhouse frames. Or do you like this? Well, they all liked farmhouse frames until she got the price on that. And because farmhouse frames, for anybody listening, is my absolute favorite. Their work is amazing.

you get what you pay for, you cannot discount that product and make money. ⁓ So anyway, she comes to the ordering appointment and she's decided like everybody's narrowed down their photos and I've given her a price. started like, I did start giving her like, okay, here's giving you a range. Cause I didn't want her to come and freak out about what the cost was. So she got here and she didn't freak out because I can't afford to do that for everybody. So after I talked to her, I found out that she wanted to do ⁓

make everybody get a Christmas gift. And every family had an $800 budget. And I'm like, okay, if you can live with not farmhouse frames, two of the people liked metal better. And I use Bay Photo, which I love. And then White House Custom Color does, it's nothing like farmhouse frames now, but they do a decent print at a price that I can make money off of and framed. And they wanted it all framed.

So once I found out what everybody wanted and what her budget was, and this is not how most people sell, I'm like, all right, let me figure out where I can find you what you want so that I can get you the best price. And she also wanted an album and she wanted everybody to get an album. So I reached out to my album people and I said, I buy multiple albums and they're all the same, will you give me a discount? Yes. So I'm like, okay, so now I can charge my same, but get my discount. So I finagled my pricing to be that

All her, every family got a 16 by 24, whatever they picked, be it metal, frame, rap, whatever, and an album for $800. And then I just charged for her stuff, her album and her, I think she got it, see, it hasn't come in yet. It's either 20 by 30 or 24 by 36 metal. And I just packed in the rest of the profit in that. And that's what it added up to, so.

Speaker 1 (32:42)
And she was happy with that.

Speaker 2 (32:44)
my God, she's ecstatic, her Christmas shopping is done. She is so, happy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:50)
So she paid you $8,500 and she loved you. It was like, please let me give you this $8,500.

Speaker 2 (32:58)
Do you take American Express? And I'm like, I don't know. I do QuickBooks. I think so. It's like, I told him to accept everything. I'm like, I don't know. But yeah. But you take American Express. She wants the points, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (33:10)
Yes, of course. So how did you feel about that? You're with her adds up to $8,500. What was going through your mind?

Speaker 2 (33:17)
⁓ Am I charging her really enough? I discount it too much?

Speaker 1 (33:21)
That's hilarious.

So you weren't thinking it was too expensive. You ⁓

Speaker 2 (33:25)
I

thinking it was too cheap, but I wanted the sale really bad. You know, I've been having issues with that this year. Yes. But my other thought on this is she is my target market. We play tennis at the same place. I don't like to promote myself where I live. I mean, if somebody asks, I tell them, but I don't ever unless you really say you're interested like she did. But I'm thinking what I'm going to do, which is not all right. But I think I'm going to give her like a referral gift cards to her.

people that, ⁓ you know, the other ladies on the tennis team or people she may know. I she owns a million dollar house here, she owns a million dollar condo and they have a house in North Carolina. So the kids have a trust fund. I mean, like this is my target market.

Speaker 1 (34:10)
Yeah, amazing. Okay, was this your highest sale? think that

Speaker 2 (34:14)
This is my highest. had one that was $8,000, which was a family with, she's got two dogs and she wanted wall art all over the place in an album. And then my next one after that, and that was someone I met were a dog training place I go to where I've just promoted and met people over time. And then the other one I got was 6,000 and that was a Google search. was like, That was an anomaly for me. was anomaly a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (34:37)
Whoa, that's pretty nice.

Yeah, because usually it's you're meeting people and

Speaker 2 (34:44)
People

have a free drawing, know, win a free session and everybody wins. And then I try and qualify them in a phone call and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And that it's funny. We were talking about trying things and they don't work. I knew it would stop working and it's not that doesn't work for me anymore. So I'm working on some, don't know what it is yet, but I'm still at the referral cards of this lady. I mean, if that drums me up one other eight under $8,000 sale or two $4,000 sales, I'll be a static.

Speaker 1 (35:11)
Yeah, you're just experimenting. Do you happen to know your average sale?

Speaker 2 (35:15)
I want to say I always tell people it's like 2000, but when I go in and look at it, I think it's a little bit higher. So it's like 2500. And if you I've had a slower year this year for personal reasons, but I'd have to go back and look, but it's definitely 1000.

Speaker 1 (35:30)
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (35:32)
I need to do more.

this wall my I'm like finally go like you actually know what you're doing your stuff looks good

Speaker 1 (35:41)
Okay, that's a very strong self concept. I know what I'm

Speaker 2 (35:45)
long

long long long it's my grandson says long long long long long long time but yeah but all of a sudden I people have been telling me forever like with Jess like oh your works good okay well charge you $35 cuz you

Speaker 1 (35:55)
⁓

right. What do you do? Have you ever run into a situation where a client says, because we all of you sell wall art and albums and a lot of it. Have you ever run into a situation where a client has been like, well, my walls are already decorated. I don't need any wall art. How do you approach that?

Speaker 2 (36:13)
digital

package that makes me happy. I actually make more money off of it.

Speaker 1 (36:16)
digital package, or you can sell albums. Katie, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (36:21)
So I walk around the house with them and I say, are you tied to this fish hanging on the wall? And then they'll be like, actually, no, let's take that down. Problem solved.

Speaker 1 (36:34)
Yeah, I guess it's like if they say their walls are already decorated, I would say, okay, what's the problem? Let's look at it and redecorate. Isn't it time to redecorate?

Speaker 2 (36:48)
question for Katie do you go to everybody's house?

Speaker 3 (36:53)
go to most people's houses if I can, yes.

Speaker 2 (36:56)
I like that. ⁓ Just I'm happy to tell them that I could suggest something else for their wall.

Speaker 1 (36:58)
Yeah, service. ⁓

Speaker 3 (37:03)
Yeah, yeah. So sometimes I meet on zoom and I kind of walk them through taking pictures of their wall, but I really prefer to do it myself because like I said, I like to take care of my clients and it sort of feels like homework, but I'm like, no, not like that. No, put it, you know,

Speaker 2 (37:21)
And I've done that, but I never thought about just saying as an offer, like I'm happy to, know, like including it in all the things that I offer, because...

Speaker 3 (37:29)
Yeah. And I wouldn't say like, would you like me to come over? I would just say I would like to come over.

Speaker 1 (37:36)
I love that. It's just an assumption. I am coming over because it's service. Yeah. And honestly, if you've ever been the consumer of a high end service, I appreciate that. Like I actually want you to tell me what to do because then I don't have to make decisions and I'm happy to write that check.

Speaker 3 (37:58)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:59)
Okay, I'd like to ask you guys what your thoughts are about, let's talk about marketing. So how are you getting clients right now? We talked about how you got that client, but in general, what are your thoughts on marketing? And let me tee this up by saying what I teach inside of Elevate, you've all been in Elevate for several years. All of you are one-on-one clients of mine for years. And I teach offline marketing and online marketing.

And offline marketing is when you're out meeting people or referrals or in the community. And online, I refer to as either social media or your website and SEO. if we just like, those are the broad categories, obviously we've dug deeper, but just for the sake of this episode, how are you getting clients right now? And what are your thoughts in general on just how you get them more so?

Like, is it more offline? it more online? Katie?

Speaker 3 (39:01)
So mine is definitely a mix. Last year, I remember trying to figure out where are my best clients coming from. And there wasn't one track that was like, this is it. Just stick with this. It really could be from anywhere. ⁓ I personally really try to use the flexibility of my ⁓ job to.

stay away from my computer because I don't want to be sitting at my desk all day. Like that doesn't fill my soul. And I want to meet people in person, even though I'm actually an introvert. ⁓ I'm an introvert, but I don't want to spend my life in front of my computer. For me, it's, it's finding those people, but the biggest thing is, calling them. I mean, and it's hard. I used to like, my heart would race before I would call potential clients. I was so, so nervous.

Speaker 1 (39:41)
Right!

Speaker 3 (39:54)
And I still have to push myself and be like, Katie, call your leads. I just hear like that little voice inside my head, call your leads. mean, and that's really it. I mean, I have a couple leads today that I know I really, I'm like, I really need to follow up with that person. Like I think they're legit gonna hire me. Like just call them and go make the sale.

Speaker 1 (40:15)
You and I have actually talked about this. We've talked on Voxer and you've said, Heather, this is what I'm doing today. I'm calling people. And I'd love that about you because it's not, I don't, it's not anyone's favorite thing to do. I don't think. And you, you do it anyway. Why? How?

Speaker 3 (40:32)
because I distinctly remember that $23,000 sale. I remember the day I was gonna sit down and I was gonna go do some ⁓ social media marketing, quote unquote, which never got me anything. And I said, my little voice in my head said, no, call that lead. You have a lead, call them. And I was like, ⁓ fine.

Speaker 1 (40:57)
And you did and it led to $23,000.

Speaker 3 (41:01)
Yeah. And I will say almost every single time, once in a while, I call a lead that's just, it's not a good fit and it's not an enjoyable phone call. But 99 % of the time, I really like getting to know people on the phone. Like I met a new client last night on the phone who had won an auction I donated. And we had the greatest conversation. Like I just think it's really fun to meet new people and expand my network. I just love it.

Speaker 1 (41:31)
Would you say that that's maybe your number one contributor to success?

Speaker 3 (41:39)
calling people.

Speaker 1 (41:40)
I

like just talking to people.

Speaker 3 (41:42)
I mean, and like I said, I like I have trouble at big groups. Like I don't like big networking, especially if there's no structure. Like that's not my thing. But I, if I know someone's interested, I can call them and, that's that. Yes. I think that's the most important thing I do.

Speaker 1 (42:05)
Yeah, and you're an introvert. That's just important to know. Actually, I believe we have two introverts and one extrovert here. So it doesn't matter how you label yourself. It's just meeting people, meeting people getting out in the community. You know how we always say in order to grow a business, you just have to meet people, them you're photographer and make an offer. And you took that seriously and you went and did it. And now here you are.

Speaker 3 (42:31)
Yes. And I will say too, and I think you've mentioned this, Heather, when you're nervous about talking to somebody, it's because you think you're performing and you have to prove yourself or, um, you know, I don't want to say show off, but like put up a front, like when you have thoughts or, or an approach like that, you're going to be like sweating bullets because you're making it mean something about you. Some to the conversation.

Speaker 1 (42:58)
That's it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:01)
thinking about how can I serve this client? What can I do to help them? And that is what you're thinking about. Like the nerves will settle because it's not about you. It's about the client.

Speaker 1 (43:12)
Brilliant. That's exactly right. If you're thinking, if you're nervous, you're probably thinking about yourself. But if you're thinking about how can I serve this person, you're curious. And then people love that because then they feel like they're being heard and you're offering a service. Okay, perfect. Jess, how are you primarily marketing or getting clients now?

Speaker 4 (43:37)
I would be that fellow introvert except when it comes to my business because I think people assume introverted means shy and they don't want to talk about it. I will talk about my business all day to anyone. ⁓ This year, ⁓ consistently it has been SEO from Google, repeat clients, and then silent auctions probably are tying with my book project where clients are coming in from that.

Speaker 1 (44:01)
So you're also meeting people.

Speaker 4 (44:03)
Yes. In the community. Yeah, not at networking events, nothing formal. Most of the time I'm meeting people just because I see their dog or I'm wearing something with a dog on it and we start talking. ⁓ Event wise, it's my Pet Photo with Santa events that I run and then an anniversary party with a local pet store that also does those Pet Photo with Santa events. And that's about the only events that I do.

Speaker 1 (44:29)
What do you tell yourself as an introvert when you know that meeting people and getting out there is how you get business? How do you, what's the self-talk there?

Speaker 4 (44:39)
⁓ To me being an introvert, it's that I get drained if I do too much peopling, but I am happy to talk to these people because they have dogs and I love dogs and they love their dogs. And so if it's a chance for me just to go and make them feel special or their dog feel amazing because I picked them out of a crowd and thought they were cute, it's easy because people are gonna talk all day about their dog. I will, they will, we're instant friends.

Speaker 1 (45:03)
Okay, I think that's the thought. It's easy. When you think something is easy, you will take action to execute. If you think something is hard or I can't do it because I'm an introvert, then of course you're going to hesitate. So you're just telling yourself better thoughts.

Speaker 4 (45:20)
Yes, because it feels better to think these people want to talk to me about their dog than it does to feel like, I'm chasing them down, I'm bothering them, they think I'm creepy because I'm just approaching them randomly. It's never any of that.

Speaker 1 (45:32)
Never. No. Marcy, how are you marketing these days?

Speaker 2 (45:38)
So like I say, it's been kind of a weird year just because of stuff that's happened, nothing bad, bad in life, but just busy in life. ⁓ But I didn't do as many events this year as I've done in the past. ⁓ And I don't not like events. I'm the extrovert, but I'm like, I don't like to talk about myself. I'll talk about everything else. So this year, I just was like kind of looking really quickly. I've met the...

20 some shoots I've had this year 17 of them are because I met somebody somewhere. So I've at the long haul really works. It's kind of crazy that I started, you know, you know associated with the dog training place and did graduation photos and mini session or like holiday mini sessions and fall stuff and drawings and whatever and kind of got a following and so people over time have reached out to me over that. Others have just been I've met somebody and give them a card and they

Like my $8,000 sale, my other sale that I met, because I'm old, I go to this place called Osseo Strong and she has her little dog there and I gave this card to this 80 year old lady and she gave it to her husband and her husband called and I to say that was like a $4,000 sale. I I was pretty happy. And then I do the giveaways, the giveaways, the drawings. and that's, I obviously have to meet somebody to gather the information. So it's the meeting people and it's.

Speaker 1 (46:55)
the

meeting people so

Speaker 2 (46:57)
You just got to come up with something that makes for me, makes me happy about what I'm doing when I meet them because sometimes I'll set up a ⁓ booth and take photos and I take my photos for free and I get, they get a little piece of paper that says go here and if you want to buy them, buy them. I don't charge them to take it. ⁓ Cause I don't want to deal with the money at the event. Cause I mean, anybody that does this knows you can farm through hundreds of dogs in a short amount of time. Like they can, they can go back and scroll through the photos, you know, and then, but you capture their email addresses.

Speaker 1 (47:26)
Right.

Speaker 2 (47:27)
So that's why I do that. And then sometimes I do the giveaway. The giveaways haven't worked so much. So like I've said, I've got to come up with some, I mean, they're going to change what I'm giving away, like make it a bigger value than what it is. But yeah, I'm working on that right now, but so far it's 100 % in person. 100 % is where I get the vision.

Speaker 1 (47:45)
100

% in person meeting people. And you, all of you have learned the structure of pricing and how to mark up products. And then you just experiment with products, right? You experiment with what you like to sell, what the clients respond to. And a lot of photographers think they need the perfect pricing or packaging. But tell me what really shifted things for you.

to get you to the point of an $8,000 sale.

Speaker 2 (48:17)
Having the product ⁓ priced right so that they can spend that much money actually is what it is. I mean, have packages, but I don't care if you get a package or not. It's a talking point. want people to understand that this is what it costs. Then I'll make your own package when you're done. But you're not walking away with a lot of stuff for $1,000. You can get a package with me for $1,000 and you'll get something, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (48:23)
It has to add up.

Speaker 2 (48:46)
It's not, but it's just having it priced right. And for me being willing to tell people, well, I'm not willing, but I tell people, I'm like, know how many options are, I'm not gonna make you a blanket with your dog's photo on it. It's like, just, you know, just if you, that's what you want, tell me and I'll find one for you. But for right now, this is what I've chosen to sell because I love these products. I love the vendors. And I believe for me, like the folio box or the album, you're gonna keep it forever. It's like, you don't want a thousand photos on your.

I don't want a thousand photos on my wall of my dog. I want one statement piece, but I want all those photos so that I can look at them.

Speaker 1 (49:18)
Right. So it has to add up. Okay. Katie, tell me in terms of how much of this has been mindset for you to go from, you know, a hundred dollar sale to a twenty three thousand dollar sale. Obviously, the products have to add up to the number. But how much did mindset play a role in this for you?

Speaker 3 (49:41)
100 % mindset, nothing else.

Speaker 1 (49:45)
Okay, I love that. Say more.

Speaker 3 (49:49)
No, well, if you're listening to this podcast, you've probably heard Heather teach about the model and how we create our results. And I firmly believe in it. I mean, it's so simple, but if you break it down to like the most basic elements, I can't pour a glass of water if I don't believe I can do it. And that's what it's, it's as simple as that, honestly.

Speaker 1 (50:12)
Yeah.

⁓

So somebody gave you the pricing strategy and said, Katie, here it is. Just price it at this, sell these products, and then you will make a million dollars or whatever. What you learned was that was not enough because if you didn't believe that you could have a $23,000 sale, it would never happen no matter how you had the pricing structure.

Speaker 3 (50:42)
Right. I mean, I agree. You need to have prices like Marcy said that add up to a high sale if you want to have a high sale. I mean, you're probably not going to send, you're not going to sell 3000 wallets, you know?

Speaker 1 (50:57)
Right.

Speaker 3 (50:59)
You know, you have to set yourself up for success, but if you don't believe that you can sell that or that it's valuable or that someone would want that, then you won't sell it. I really think if you believe in your product, you can sell anything.

Speaker 1 (51:16)
Oh my gosh, I am with you 100%. If you believe in something, you could sell it period. But you have to believe, you have to believe in the product, the service, the value, the pricing. You have to believe that there are clients out there ready, willing and able to pay. Because if you didn't have that thought, I promise you, you would never get an $8,000 sale, let alone 23.

Jess, what are your thoughts on this with mindset?

Speaker 4 (51:44)
was gonna say it's entirely mindset because all the numbers can add up, all the pricing can be profitable, you can love what you're selling, but if you don't believe that your clients are gonna love it too and that they're they're excited to give you money, it doesn't work. I love when I get a client who spends a lot and thanks me for it and they're so appreciative and you're like, you know what, what I'm doing matters. And it's okay to let people pay for it however they want, if it's on multiple credit cards, if you wanna pay me in cash or check, I don't care.

Let the people give you money because it makes them happy and I'm not going to be a happiness stopper.

Speaker 1 (52:18)
Gosh, I'm not going to be a happiness stopper. Just let them give you money. But you have to believe it's worth it or you're going to block it.

Speaker 2 (52:26)
me.

Speaker 4 (52:30)
Entirely. Yep. And a cell in your head.

Speaker 1 (52:33)
Okay, there has to be a point for all of you where you didn't believe that you thought if you had the packages and the pricing like many photographers, and then at some point you picked up on, well, wait a minute, I have to shift something in my thinking in order to make this happen. So I want to wrap this up by asking essentially, what would you tell either yourself when you were in that thinking or

A new photographer, or not even a new photographer, just any photographer that's really struggling because they want to get their strategies right with their pricing. What one piece of advice would you give them, Katie?

Speaker 3 (53:13)
So the biggest thing I would say is that the quality of your work is not what determines your success. And obviously, if somebody is asking you interested, a lead, they've seen your work, they know it's good. And it's all subjective, too. I actually had a client one time ask me.

Is my work as good as this other like well-known photographer in town? And I said to him, well, what do you think? You are, you're the client. You tell me, you know, because if you value it, then it's, it's good enough. And obviously I'm always learning and learning from Nicole's hair of the dog and, lots of educators. love to learn new strategies and try new things and not just like stick with.

Speaker 1 (53:46)
right? ⁓

Speaker 3 (54:07)
what I learned 10 years ago, I've come a long way. And I think most photographers naturally are driven to do that. And the more they shoot, the better they get. ⁓ But there definitely is a fallacy. A lot of photographers believe that, my work's just not good enough. That's why I'm not successful. But you can look at some very successful photographers out there who have what I would consider mediocre work. Because...

they're selling their service and they're taking care of their clients and they believe in what they have to offer and it's good enough. Like, and it sounds kind of like, ⁓ I must like not really care. I really do care a lot. ⁓ It's just that it's subjective and it's not, it's actually not the number one most important thing.

Speaker 1 (54:52)
I love that. Excuse me. So what you're saying is the work isn't as important as we think we're putting maybe too much weight on it. And we also put a little much too weight on the perfect pricing structure or strategy. And so we think if we improve our work and we get the pricing right, then we will be successful. And what you're saying is you can be successful at any point based on how you think about it. Perfect. Marcy, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (55:17)
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (55:21)
would say that what I've, how I think now is that, and I believe this, that I'm an expert in my field for pet photography, not all the other areas of photography, but for pets, and that I'm providing a service and a solution for what they want. I mean, just to, know, like, is it the end of life or documenting a period in time? But I'm here, I offer a service and a solution, and I know exactly what to do.

Speaker 1 (55:46)
I love those thoughts. Everybody should write down those thoughts and then just think them, right? Just write them down and think those thoughts. For you, what would you tell someone in terms of their mindset? They're really latching on to the perfect pricing or getting how it's structured or the systems you use. What would you tell them?

Speaker 2 (56:10)
⁓ Do what you're comfortable. You have to price it to be profitable. And there's tons of information in these groups out there to do it. ⁓ Ask me the question, how did you say that?

Speaker 1 (56:21)
How would they need to think about it when they're really hung up on, I have to get the perfect pricing?

Speaker 2 (56:27)
There is no perfect pricing. There is no perfect package. Like I said before, it's a talking point to get started and I'm constantly changing my packages. I look at people and go, are you guys nuts? This is the best deal ever. you get all, I mean, I'll be happy and do you know how much stuff you're getting and how long it's going to take me to do this? What's wrong with you? I never say that obviously. I think that about the packages, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (56:47)
Right.

Speaker 2 (56:50)
I can't read everybody's mind, so I'm going to accommodate the best I can. And after having done it for a while and trying different things, I get a feel for what people like in my area because they've seen what I do. And I've decided to go to the higher end, like I say, with the farmhouse frames. ⁓ And I'd only show higher end products now.

Speaker 1 (57:12)
Yes, because you believe there are people ready, willing and able to pay.

Speaker 2 (57:16)
And I mean, it's like, it's beautiful. It's like, why would you want to put anything else on your wall but that?

Speaker 1 (57:20)
That's it. You view these things as a no brainer. This is a no brainer. The price and the value and what you get. I just don't, this is how I feel about Elevate. I'm like, I don't understand why everybody doesn't join all of the photographers. To me, it's a no brainer, but I set it up that way so that I could have that very solid belief. And then it makes it easier to share and invite people because I never feel like I'm selling.

Okay, Jess, what are your thoughts on this? What advice would you give yourself 10 years ago?

Speaker 4 (57:58)
that you can make this whole business thing look however you want it to look. You're gonna hear a different way to price, a session fee, a product credit, structure your pricing this certain way, have a la carte, have collections, it does not matter. You can set your boundaries, you can run it exactly how you want it to be, and some people will like it, great, and some people won't, and that's fine, go. Make room for the people who are gonna come in and make my business enjoyable because it's how I want.

it to look and it's the kind of plants that I want to work with. So take everything you hear and toy with it, get data, give it some time to implement. But if it doesn't feel right to you, just because someone told you to price it at this way or structure it like this, you don't have to do that. And when you trust your gut and you listen to what feels good and what's working for you, then you're going to be successful.

Speaker 1 (58:47)
I love that because what you're saying is there's no right or wrong way. There's just how you want to structure it.

Speaker 4 (58:53)
Entirely, yes.

Speaker 1 (58:54)
And my, I love the way my coach says this. She says, you should always be talking to your best client, not trying to convince your worst. And she doesn't mean like worst client. She just means a client that doesn't fit. You should always, if you love it and it's a no brainer for you and you want to do it a certain way, then you just talk about it. Then you are naturally attracting your best client, but where people get hung up two places, everything has to be right. It has to be a certain way. And I have to convince people.

And that's all thinking how you think about it.

Speaker 4 (59:27)
Right, and when you're, you are gonna hear no. And sometimes when we're doing a more boutique model, you're gonna hear no more often. But it's a good thing because it's just proof that your processes are working. You put these boundaries and these rules into place to have people weed themselves out. Everything is always working. So even when you hear no, it's good.

Speaker 1 (59:44)
It's fine. It's good. It's not a problem. Perfect. That's a great way to end. Jessica, can you let us know where we can find you?

Speaker 4 (59:52)
My website is bark and gold photography.com and I am on Facebook at Bark and Gold Photography and Instagram at Bark and Gold Photography.

Speaker 1 (1:00:01)
And that's a play on Pittsburgh because we live in Pittsburgh. Yes. And we have, that's what we say. It's what we don't say bark and gold. We say black and gold for our sports teams. ⁓ So if you've never heard that, that's where that comes from. But people in Pittsburgh will understand that reference. Thank you, Marcy. Where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (1:00:22)
It's really original name, marcyfryphotography.com. N-A-R-C-I-E-F-R-Y, that's the catch. And then Facebook is the same and then Instagram is just marcyfryphoto.

Speaker 1 (1:00:36)
Yes. And obviously I'll link all this up in the show notes if anyone wants to check out your websites. What about you, Katie?

Speaker 3 (1:00:43)
And I'm also very original, katycarmichael.com and it's Carmichael rhymes with pickle.

Speaker 1 (1:00:51)
Yes, I remember that. So what's interesting is that I'm the same way it was weddings by Heather.com. don't have my site there anymore, but it was like I didn't consider myself terribly original. was just, I love photography. I have a passion for doing this and I just assumed I could figure it out. If you wanted to do something, you can just figure it out. Everything else is just a bunch of overthinking and at its simplest form.

What would it look like to just go out there and get clients? I appreciate your time so much. I'm sure everyone found this valuable. Thank you so much for joining me.

Speaker 3 (1:01:31)
Thanks for having us.